From prutka13 at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 06:51:15 2018 From: prutka13 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGF3ZcWCIFJ1dGth?=) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 06:51:15 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] QtCreator crashes in debug build Message-ID: Hi I have some trouble to run QTCreator debug build. I have build 4.6 branch ( previously 4.5 too) with Qt 5.10 and mingw delivered in Qt on Windows 7. All the time I got such stacktrace: 1 WTF::OSAllocator::reserveAndCommit OSAllocatorWin.cpp 57 0x20ef3649 2 WTF::PageAllocation::allocate PageAllocation.h 99 0x20ef9802 3 QV4::ExecutionEngine::ExecutionEngine qv4engine.cpp 188 0x20ef9802 4 QV8Engine::QV8Engine qv8engine.cpp 150 0x21036f8d 5 QJSEngine::QJSEngine qjsengine.cpp 293 0x20ee394c 6 QJSEngine::QJSEngine qjsengine.cpp 280 0x20ee3977 7 Core::Internal::JsExpanderPrivate::JsExpanderPrivate jsexpander.cpp 41 0x3328e4fd 8 Core::JsExpander::JsExpander jsexpander.cpp 82 0x33179ce4 9 Core::Internal::MainWindow::MainWindow mainwindow.cpp 115 0x331621c5 10 Core::Internal::CorePlugin::initialize coreplugin.cpp 152 0x331c96ea 11 ExtensionSystem::Internal::PluginSpecPrivate::initializePlugin pluginspec.cpp 994 0x6a595306 12 ExtensionSystem::Internal::PluginManagerPrivate::loadPlugin pluginmanager.cpp 1412 0x6a58b510 13 ExtensionSystem::Internal::PluginManagerPrivate::loadPlugins pluginmanager.cpp 1245 0x6a58a35c 14 ExtensionSystem::PluginManager::loadPlugins pluginmanager.cpp 366 0x6a5853b4 15 qMain main.cpp 530 0x40839e 16 WinMain *16 qtmain_win.cpp 104 0x40a5c5 17 main 0x41059d SIGSEGV was received. I do not know exactly where to go from here, maybe its Qt 5.10 bug and someone already heard about it (I cannot find any refernce about it). Thx for all help ! Regards, Pawel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vivaladav at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 09:28:51 2018 From: vivaladav at gmail.com (Davide Coppola) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 09:28:51 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] QtCreator crashes in debug build In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Pawel, I am not a Qt Creator developer myself, but I would suggest you to report bugs in the tracker first: https://bugreports.qt.io/projects/QTCREATORBUG/issues Cheers On 2 February 2018 at 06:51, Paweł Rutka wrote: > Hi > I have some trouble to run QTCreator debug build. I have build 4.6 branch > ( previously 4.5 too) with Qt 5.10 and mingw delivered in Qt on Windows 7. > All the time I got such stacktrace: > > 1 WTF::OSAllocator::reserveAndCommit > OSAllocatorWin.cpp 57 0x20ef3649 > 2 WTF::PageAllocation::allocate > PageAllocation.h 99 0x20ef9802 > 3 QV4::ExecutionEngine::ExecutionEngine > qv4engine.cpp 188 0x20ef9802 > 4 QV8Engine::QV8Engine > qv8engine.cpp 150 0x21036f8d > 5 QJSEngine::QJSEngine > qjsengine.cpp 293 0x20ee394c > 6 QJSEngine::QJSEngine > qjsengine.cpp 280 0x20ee3977 > 7 Core::Internal::JsExpanderPrivate::JsExpanderPrivate > jsexpander.cpp 41 0x3328e4fd > 8 Core::JsExpander::JsExpander > jsexpander.cpp 82 0x33179ce4 > 9 Core::Internal::MainWindow::MainWindow > mainwindow.cpp 115 0x331621c5 > 10 Core::Internal::CorePlugin::initialize > coreplugin.cpp 152 0x331c96ea > 11 ExtensionSystem::Internal::PluginSpecPrivate::initializePlugin > pluginspec.cpp 994 0x6a595306 > 12 ExtensionSystem::Internal::PluginManagerPrivate::loadPlugin > pluginmanager.cpp 1412 0x6a58b510 > 13 ExtensionSystem::Internal::PluginManagerPrivate::loadPlugins > pluginmanager.cpp 1245 0x6a58a35c > 14 ExtensionSystem::PluginManager::loadPlugins > pluginmanager.cpp 366 0x6a5853b4 > 15 qMain > main.cpp 530 0x40839e > 16 WinMain *16 > qtmain_win.cpp 104 0x40a5c5 > 17 main > 0x41059d > > SIGSEGV was received. > I do not know exactly where to go from here, maybe its Qt 5.10 bug and > someone already heard about it (I cannot find any refernce about it). > > Thx for all help ! > > Regards, > Pawel > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -- *Davide Coppola* *email:* vivaladav at gmail.com *website:* http://www.davidecoppola.com *blog:* http://blog.davidecoppola.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julius.bullinger at intel.com Tue Feb 6 09:11:01 2018 From: julius.bullinger at intel.com (Bullinger, Julius) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 08:11:01 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] clazy in 4.6.0-beta1 snapshot 1884 Message-ID: <7FC8D04D3E708B4AA8248F6D64E0CB2136BF62C7@IRSMSX104.ger.corp.intel.com> Hi, I just upgraded my Qt Creator 4.6 preview installation to snapshot 1884, and I cannot use the clazy integration anymore. The respective option in Options > C++ > Code Model > Clazy is disabled and I cannot change it. Is this expected? Has clazy been removed again, or should I file a bug? Thanks Julius P.S.: It seems like recent snapshots are broken, they are called "...x86-%GLOBAL_VERSION_AND_TAG%_..." and cannot be downloaded. Intel Deutschland GmbH Registered Address: Am Campeon 10-12, 85579 Neubiberg, Germany Tel: +49 89 99 8853-0, www.intel.de Managing Directors: Christin Eisenschmid, Christian Lamprechter Chairperson of the Supervisory Board: Nicole Lau Registered Office: Munich Commercial Register: Amtsgericht Muenchen HRB 186928 From ivan.donchevskii at qt.io Tue Feb 6 09:21:52 2018 From: ivan.donchevskii at qt.io (Ivan Donchevskii) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 08:21:52 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] clazy in 4.6.0-beta1 snapshot 1884 In-Reply-To: <7FC8D04D3E708B4AA8248F6D64E0CB2136BF62C7@IRSMSX104.ger.corp.intel.com> References: <7FC8D04D3E708B4AA8248F6D64E0CB2136BF62C7@IRSMSX104.ger.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Hi! Options are disabled because they've become part of the code model configuration and are turned off by default. So to be able to set clazy options in recent builds you need to create your own configuration (you can press Copy... button for example). We are still thinking how to improve user experience with these settings so thank you for your feedback :) We will try to make settings more obvious. Kind regards, Ivan ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Bullinger, Julius Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:11:01 AM To: Qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: [Qt-creator] clazy in 4.6.0-beta1 snapshot 1884 Hi, I just upgraded my Qt Creator 4.6 preview installation to snapshot 1884, and I cannot use the clazy integration anymore. The respective option in Options > C++ > Code Model > Clazy is disabled and I cannot change it. Is this expected? Has clazy been removed again, or should I file a bug? Thanks Julius P.S.: It seems like recent snapshots are broken, they are called "...x86-%GLOBAL_VERSION_AND_TAG%_..." and cannot be downloaded. Intel Deutschland GmbH Registered Address: Am Campeon 10-12, 85579 Neubiberg, Germany Tel: +49 89 99 8853-0, www.intel.de Managing Directors: Christin Eisenschmid, Christian Lamprechter Chairperson of the Supervisory Board: Nicole Lau Registered Office: Munich Commercial Register: Amtsgericht Muenchen HRB 186928 _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander.smid at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 20:01:41 2018 From: sander.smid at gmail.com (Sander Smid) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 20:01:41 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] QtCreator support for Unreal Engine 4 Message-ID: Hi, I was wondering if QtCreator could see some improvements in supporting third-party builds systems and/or integration with bigger projects. Unreal Engine 4 is one of the biggest game engines and, when you agree with their terms, you get access to the full source code. This helped quite a bit in supporting other platforms. One of the weaker points with this engine is that for each platform you require to adapt to a another IDE or build process. Unreal uses their own build system, which can generate projectfiles/-solutions for various other build systems (e.g. CMake) and IDEs. If QtCreator could integrate better with UE4 there would be a single IDE that works on all platforms. The official UE4 docs[1] already mention QtCreator but if you take the time to look at the steps the integration is very weak. Changing a build target, variant or platform means changing the builds steps by hand. This is one of the reasons people often recommend CodeLite for development on Linux because that IDE allows you to switch target and variant by using the drop down menus just like you would on Visual Studio. Is if there is willingness to add UE4 support in QtCreator or are there ways to improve the current integration? Cheers, .san [1] - https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Platforms/Linux/BeginnerLinuxDeveloper/SettingUpQtCreator/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From realnc at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 23:49:59 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:49:59 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] Missing shortcut for jump to start/end of document? Message-ID: In the keyboard shortcuts editor, I can't seem to find entries for changing the shortcuts to jump to the start and end of the current file. I occasionally need to use Creator on a Mac, and am trying to bind Ctrl+Home/Ctrl+End for this. I have changed the shortcuts for things like begin/end of line, next/previous word, etc, and this is one of the last missing pieces. Is there a way I can change these shortcuts? From fromqt at tungware.se Sat Feb 10 01:36:01 2018 From: fromqt at tungware.se (Henry Skoglund) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:36:01 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Missing shortcut for jump to start/end of document? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99c42400-bbc4-df13-f85d-4dee4079733c@tungware.se> On 2018-02-09 23:49, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > In the keyboard shortcuts editor, I can't seem to find entries for > changing the shortcuts to jump to the start and end of the current file. > > I occasionally need to use Creator on a Mac, and am trying to bind > Ctrl+Home/Ctrl+End for this. I have changed the shortcuts for things > like begin/end of line, next/previous word, etc, and this is one of the > last missing pieces. > > Is there a way I can change these shortcuts? Hi, I also faced this problem when I started using Qt Creator a few years ago, couldn't find any editable shortcuts for jumping to start and end of a document, Solved it by writing a simple Qt Creator plugin https://github.com/tungware/GeezerEditQt Because I'm so used to Wordstar (i.e. "sudo apt install joe") my plugin uses ^Qr and ^Qc, but it should be easy to change to Ctrl+Home/End. Also, once you've taken the plugin approach, you can also stash your other custom shortcuts there, for example I use lots of shortcuts for the common Qxx classes, instead of typing 'qDebug() << ' I hit ^q^qd, for QByteArray I use ^q^qb, for QString I use ^q^qs. Perhaps you're missing insert date/time (i.e. F5 in Notepad in Windows), easily fixed as well. Finally, there are some nice functions inside Qt Creator which are not exposed in the menus, for example if you are on a 4K screen like me, you can increase the width of the text cursor with a shortcut. Rgrds Henry From Jaroslaw.Kobus at qt.io Mon Feb 12 11:37:24 2018 From: Jaroslaw.Kobus at qt.io (Jaroslaw Kobus) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:37:24 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Missing shortcut for jump to start/end of document? In-Reply-To: <99c42400-bbc4-df13-f85d-4dee4079733c@tungware.se> References: , <99c42400-bbc4-df13-f85d-4dee4079733c@tungware.se> Message-ID: Hi, Please feel free to file a suggestion task for this missing functionality at https://bugreports.qt.io. Regards Jarek System Dashboard - Qt Bug Tracker bugreports.qt.io System Dashboard . Tools. View as wallboard ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Henry Skoglund Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 1:36:01 AM To: qt-creator at qt-project.org; realnc at gmail.com Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Missing shortcut for jump to start/end of document? On 2018-02-09 23:49, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > In the keyboard shortcuts editor, I can't seem to find entries for > changing the shortcuts to jump to the start and end of the current file. > > I occasionally need to use Creator on a Mac, and am trying to bind > Ctrl+Home/Ctrl+End for this. I have changed the shortcuts for things > like begin/end of line, next/previous word, etc, and this is one of the > last missing pieces. > > Is there a way I can change these shortcuts? Hi, I also faced this problem when I started using Qt Creator a few years ago, couldn't find any editable shortcuts for jumping to start and end of a document, Solved it by writing a simple Qt Creator plugin https://github.com/tungware/GeezerEditQt Because I'm so used to Wordstar (i.e. "sudo apt install joe") my plugin uses ^Qr and ^Qc, but it should be easy to change to Ctrl+Home/End. Also, once you've taken the plugin approach, you can also stash your other custom shortcuts there, for example I use lots of shortcuts for the common Qxx classes, instead of typing 'qDebug() << ' I hit ^q^qd, for QByteArray I use ^q^qb, for QString I use ^q^qs. Perhaps you're missing insert date/time (i.e. F5 in Notepad in Windows), easily fixed as well. Finally, there are some nice functions inside Qt Creator which are not exposed in the menus, for example if you are on a 4K screen like me, you can increase the width of the text cursor with a shortcut. Rgrds Henry _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Eike.Ziller at qt.io Mon Feb 12 15:17:58 2018 From: Eike.Ziller at qt.io (Eike Ziller) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 14:17:58 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Missing shortcut for jump to start/end of document? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <185FADDD-304D-4AA7-BACC-E876E0E9A58C@qt.io> > On 9. Feb 2018, at 23:49, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > In the keyboard shortcuts editor, I can't seem to find entries for changing the shortcuts to jump to the start and end of the current file. > > I occasionally need to use Creator on a Mac, and am trying to bind Ctrl+Home/Ctrl+End for this. I have changed the shortcuts for things like begin/end of line, next/previous word, etc, and this is one of the last missing pieces. > > Is there a way I can change these shortcuts? This was overlooked. I’ve created a patch: https://codereview.qt-project.org/219929 Br, Eike -- Eike Ziller Principal Software Engineer The Qt Company GmbH Rudower Chaussee 13 D-12489 Berlin eike.ziller at qt.io http://qt.io Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B From frederik.gladhorn at qt.io Tue Feb 13 13:21:53 2018 From: frederik.gladhorn at qt.io (Frederik Gladhorn) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 13:21:53 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Google Summer of Code Message-ID: <1563927.mWZoXkcDQC@frederik-thinkcentre-m93p> Hi all, The Qt Project has been accepted as mentor organization for GSoC. Yay! https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/5388456415461376/ We now should collect ideas for projects that students could work on, we started here: https://wiki.qt.io/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018/Project_Ideas For students it's a good idea to start talking to people in areas you are interested in already. We have not yet set the criteria for being accepted, but I imagine you should at least have pushed a change or two to Qt's codereview and have some C++ knowledge (or willingness to learn), depending on the task. http://wiki.qt.io/Qt_Contribution_Guidelines will help you getting started. Check out KDE's guidelines, many things apply to Qt (both for students and mentors): https://community.kde.org/GSoC I'd like to invite everyone to join #qt-gsoc on freenode. Ask questions about procedure in #qt-gsoc, programming questions then in #qt- labs on IRC/freenode. This mailing list is also a good place to discuss about potential work this summer. People that have been active in developing Qt can of course be mentors, let me know if you want to be part of the mentor team, signing up for mentoring is not a commitment yet. Note that you cannot be mentor and student at the same time. We will aim to have at least two mentors for each project and that mentoring does take time and commitment, it's not an easy task (not to discourage you, the more mentors we have, the better). The general overview page for Qt GSoC is here: https://wiki.qt.io/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018 Right now the organization page for GSoC shows "The Qt Company", which is a mistake we made when applying for the program. It of course should be the "Qt Project". This is the first time we'll participate in GSoC, so I don't expect us to get too many slots, we'll find out as we go, I do hope we'll have some great applications and get interesting things into Qt. Cheers, Frederik _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development From steve at blighty.com Wed Feb 14 00:33:56 2018 From: steve at blighty.com (Steve Atkins) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:33:56 -0800 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion Message-ID: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> I'm using Creator 4.6.0-beta1 on a current generation macbook pro, and code completion is painfully slow - it'll take four or five seconds to complete anything. While it's doing so clangbackend will ramp up to 200% CPU. It's a reasonably simple project - less than 6,000 lines of code across about 60 files. The completion, and everything else connected to the code model seems to be working fine, it's just CPU intensive and slow. Is this just how the clang backend is at the moment, or should I be looking for misconfiguration or other problems? Cheers, Steve From realnc at gmail.com Wed Feb 14 01:00:29 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 02:00:29 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> Message-ID: If you have the "clang-tidy" checks enabled, disable them, or only use 1 or 2 of them. That feature is extremely slow. On 14/02/18 01:33, Steve Atkins wrote: > I'm using Creator 4.6.0-beta1 on a current generation macbook pro, and code completion is painfully slow - it'll take four or five seconds to complete anything. While it's doing so clangbackend will ramp up to 200% CPU. > > It's a reasonably simple project - less than 6,000 lines of code across about 60 files. The completion, and everything else connected to the code model seems to be working fine, it's just CPU intensive and slow. > > Is this just how the clang backend is at the moment, or should I be looking for misconfiguration or other problems? > > Cheers, > Steve > From steve at blighty.com Wed Feb 14 01:04:14 2018 From: steve at blighty.com (Steve Atkins) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:04:14 -0800 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> Message-ID: <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> > On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:00 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > If you have the "clang-tidy" checks enabled, disable them, or only use 1 or 2 of them. That feature is extremely slow. That fixes it, thanks. Bit of a shame, as they were rather a nice feature. Cheers, Steve > > > On 14/02/18 01:33, Steve Atkins wrote: >> I'm using Creator 4.6.0-beta1 on a current generation macbook pro, and code completion is painfully slow - it'll take four or five seconds to complete anything. While it's doing so clangbackend will ramp up to 200% CPU. >> It's a reasonably simple project - less than 6,000 lines of code across about 60 files. The completion, and everything else connected to the code model seems to be working fine, it's just CPU intensive and slow. >> Is this just how the clang backend is at the moment, or should I be looking for misconfiguration or other problems? >> Cheers, >> Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator From annulen at yandex.ru Wed Feb 14 13:47:51 2018 From: annulen at yandex.ru (Konstantin Tokarev) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:47:51 +0300 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> Message-ID: <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru> 14.02.2018, 03:04, "Steve Atkins" : >>  On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:00 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >>  If you have the "clang-tidy" checks enabled, disable them, or only use 1 or 2 of them. That feature is extremely slow. > > That fixes it, thanks. Bit of a shame, as they were rather a nice feature. There are 2 approaches to this problem: * use faster CPU * make clang-tidy itself faster > > Cheers, >   Steve > >>  On 14/02/18 01:33, Steve Atkins wrote: >>>  I'm using Creator 4.6.0-beta1 on a current generation macbook pro, and code completion is painfully slow - it'll take four or five seconds to complete anything. While it's doing so clangbackend will ramp up to 200% CPU. >>>  It's a reasonably simple project - less than 6,000 lines of code across about 60 files. The completion, and everything else connected to the code model seems to be working fine, it's just CPU intensive and slow. >>>  Is this just how the clang backend is at the moment, or should I be looking for misconfiguration or other problems? >>>  Cheers, >>>    Steve >> >>  _______________________________________________ >>  Qt-creator mailing list >>  Qt-creator at qt-project.org >>  http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -- Regards, Konstantin From guenterlists at schwann.at Wed Feb 14 14:00:53 2018 From: guenterlists at schwann.at (Guenter Schwann) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 14:00:53 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru> References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> On Mittwoch, 14. Februar 2018 13:47:51 CET Konstantin Tokarev wrote: > 14.02.2018, 03:04, "Steve Atkins" : > >> On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:00 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> > >> If you have the "clang-tidy" checks enabled, disable them, or only use 1 > >> or 2 of them. That feature is extremely slow.> > > That fixes it, thanks. Bit of a shame, as they were rather a nice feature. > > There are 2 approaches to this problem: > * use faster CPU > * make clang-tidy itself faster Or * run clang-tidy/clazy "outside" of the code-model in a separate step in QtCreator? * run clang-tidy/clazy only when triggered (menu entry - like the for example the clang power tools in VS) Btw. - it would be nice if the QtCreator clang-tidy plugin would (optionally) make use of a .clang-tidy config file (to share it with clang power tools for example). Regards Guenter From ivan.donchevskii at qt.io Wed Feb 14 14:08:48 2018 From: ivan.donchevskii at qt.io (Ivan Donchevskii) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 13:08:48 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: <2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru>,<2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> Message-ID: Btw. - it would be nice if the QtCreator clang-tidy plugin would (optionally) make use of a .clang-tidy config file (to share it with clang power tools for example). It's definitely in our plans. We've already discussed how we can support different ways of configuring tidy (with file and with ui options). Making separate tool for tidy/clazy (to run them like static analyzer on the whole project) is also in plans but we have to solve some technical things on the way to it. Regards, Ivan ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Guenter Schwann Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 2:00 PM To: qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion On Mittwoch, 14. Februar 2018 13:47:51 CET Konstantin Tokarev wrote: > 14.02.2018, 03:04, "Steve Atkins" : > >> On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:00 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> > >> If you have the "clang-tidy" checks enabled, disable them, or only use 1 > >> or 2 of them. That feature is extremely slow.> > > That fixes it, thanks. Bit of a shame, as they were rather a nice feature. > > There are 2 approaches to this problem: > * use faster CPU > * make clang-tidy itself faster Or * run clang-tidy/clazy "outside" of the code-model in a separate step in QtCreator? * run clang-tidy/clazy only when triggered (menu entry - like the for example the clang power tools in VS) Btw. - it would be nice if the QtCreator clang-tidy plugin would (optionally) make use of a .clang-tidy config file (to share it with clang power tools for example). Regards Guenter _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From realnc at gmail.com Wed Feb 14 18:05:36 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:05:36 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru> <2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> Message-ID: Shouldn't all this actually be using clangd? https://clang.llvm.org/extra/clangd.html On 14/02/18 15:08, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: > > Btw. - it would be nice if the QtCreator clang-tidy plugin would > (optionally) > make use of a .clang-tidy config file (to share it with clang power > tools for > example). > > It's definitely in our plans. We've already discussed how we can support > different ways of configuring tidy (with file and with ui options). > Making separate tool for tidy/clazy (to run them like static analyzer on > the whole project) is also in plans but we have to solve some technical > things on the way to it. > > Regards, > Ivan From Marco.Bubke at qt.io Wed Feb 14 18:19:46 2018 From: Marco.Bubke at qt.io (Marco Bubke) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:19:46 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru> <2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> , Message-ID: We are looking into implementing the language server protocol but that is not so important now. For the speed problem, we have an idea how we can improve it but we don't want to add it in 4.6 because it could can break something. ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Nikos Chantziaras Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:05:36 PM To: qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion Shouldn't all this actually be using clangd? https://clang.llvm.org/extra/clangd.html On 14/02/18 15:08, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: > > Btw. - it would be nice if the QtCreator clang-tidy plugin would > (optionally) > make use of a .clang-tidy config file (to share it with clang power > tools for > example). > > It's definitely in our plans. We've already discussed how we can support > different ways of configuring tidy (with file and with ui options). > Making separate tool for tidy/clazy (to run them like static analyzer on > the whole project) is also in plans but we have to solve some technical > things on the way to it. > > Regards, > Ivan _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at blighty.com Wed Feb 14 18:25:28 2018 From: steve at blighty.com (Steve Atkins) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:25:28 -0800 Subject: [Qt-creator] clangbackend slow code completion In-Reply-To: <2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> References: <92FD2013-4383-4392-A29A-771110921937@blighty.com> <3EE60FDB-BAC9-46A9-BB42-E78EE8F19293@blighty.com> <3738671518612471@web14o.yandex.ru> <2789352.d3LGB0fAlm@dellxps15> Message-ID: <9E5A093A-D44C-4FD2-98AB-9440FD05B781@blighty.com> > On Feb 14, 2018, at 5:00 AM, Guenter Schwann wrote: > > On Mittwoch, 14. Februar 2018 13:47:51 CET Konstantin Tokarev wrote: >> 14.02.2018, 03:04, "Steve Atkins" : >>>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:00 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>>> >>>> If you have the "clang-tidy" checks enabled, disable them, or only use 1 >>>> or 2 of them. That feature is extremely slow.> >>> That fixes it, thanks. Bit of a shame, as they were rather a nice feature. >> >> There are 2 approaches to this problem: >> * use faster CPU >> * make clang-tidy itself faster > > Or > * run clang-tidy/clazy "outside" of the code-model in a separate step in > QtCreator? > * run clang-tidy/clazy only when triggered (menu entry - like the for example > the clang power tools in VS) Yes, something like that seems the only way clang-tidy + Creator will be usable, unless clang-tidy gets at least an order of magnitude faster or 30GHz processors hit the market. Asynchronous code checks would be a killer feature. (I'd assumed that was the way it would be implemented - that clang tidy checks wouldn't be related to basic completion - otherwise I'd have thought to try turning them off to fix completion). > Btw. - it would be nice if the QtCreator clang-tidy plugin would (optionally) > make use of a .clang-tidy config file (to share it with clang power tools for > example). Yes, and that'd let you be more selective with which checks to enable too. Cheers, Steve From jhihn at gmx.com Wed Feb 14 20:04:52 2018 From: jhihn at gmx.com (Jason H) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 20:04:52 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Begging for some micro-features for 4.6/4.7 Message-ID: I know the beta is out for 4.6, but I would like to request a few tiny "how hard could it be?" features. 1. Add the really cool color ticks in the scrollbars (used for showing location of errors, found occurrences) of found occurrences to the Help, Compile, and Output panes. I figure this is a micro-feature because there is already a scrollbar that does it, and the finding ability also exists. It's just not yet applied for those panes. I'm begging for this!! 2. Add new colors for class and function definitions to the scrollbars. The idea is that the Nth color tick corresponds to the nth class/function in header files and the Nth color corresponds to the Nth function for source. (Maybe have click to jump?) Also, unrelated to those microfeatures, I wanted to ask what the level of support in QtCreator for other languages is? I really like QtC, and if those microfeatures make it in, I'd be hugely motivated to use QtC exclusively. I'm using Python and JS (node), I know there was some support for Python, and QML uses JS, but I'm not sure how far it's come or able to be extended. I think my main issues are: 1. How to start a new project 2. Can QtC parse python's imports and JS's require() for things like "Follow symbol under Cursor" Many thanks for an excellent IDE. From jhihn at gmx.com Thu Feb 15 04:33:03 2018 From: jhihn at gmx.com (Jason H) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 04:33:03 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Interest] [Development] Google Summer of Code In-Reply-To: <1563927.mWZoXkcDQC@frederik-thinkcentre-m93p> References: <1563927.mWZoXkcDQC@frederik-thinkcentre-m93p> Message-ID: I don't know how to use the suggestion template, but Qt needs a unified approach to Notifications (Push on mobile, Desktop), if it is not already in the works. > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 7:21 AM > From: "Frederik Gladhorn" > To: interest at qt-project.org, qt-creator at qt-project.org > Subject: [Interest] [Development] Google Summer of Code > > Hi all, > > The Qt Project has been accepted as mentor organization for GSoC. Yay! > https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/5388456415461376/ > > We now should collect ideas for projects that students could work on, we > started here: > https://wiki.qt.io/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018/Project_Ideas > > For students it's a good idea to start talking to people in areas you are > interested in already. We have not yet set the criteria for being accepted, > but I imagine you should at least have pushed a change or two to Qt's > codereview and have some C++ knowledge (or willingness to learn), depending on > the task. > http://wiki.qt.io/Qt_Contribution_Guidelines will help you getting started. > > Check out KDE's guidelines, many things apply to Qt (both for students and > mentors): > https://community.kde.org/GSoC > > I'd like to invite everyone to join #qt-gsoc on freenode. > Ask questions about procedure in #qt-gsoc, programming questions then in #qt- > labs on IRC/freenode. This mailing list is also a good place to discuss about > potential work this summer. > > People that have been active in developing Qt can of course be mentors, let me > know if you want to be part of the mentor team, signing up for mentoring is > not a commitment yet. Note that you cannot be mentor and student at the same > time. We will aim to have at least two mentors for each project and that > mentoring does take time and commitment, it's not an easy task (not to > discourage you, the more mentors we have, the better). > > The general overview page for Qt GSoC is here: > https://wiki.qt.io/Google_Summer_of_Code/2018 > > Right now the organization page for GSoC shows "The Qt Company", which is a > mistake we made when applying for the program. It of course should be the "Qt > Project". > > This is the first time we'll participate in GSoC, so I don't expect us to get > too many slots, we'll find out as we go, I do hope we'll have some great > applications and get interesting things into Qt. > > Cheers, > Frederik > > _______________________________________________ > Development mailing list > Development at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > > _______________________________________________ > Interest mailing list > Interest at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/interest > From andre.hartmann at iseg-hv.de Thu Feb 15 08:27:10 2018 From: andre.hartmann at iseg-hv.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Hartmann?=) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 08:27:10 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Begging for some micro-features for 4.6/4.7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4fb59e8b-878c-8da6-78bc-d98487f09db9@iseg-hv.de> Hi Jason, > I know the beta is out for 4.6, but I would like to request a few tiny "how hard could it be?" features. There is a simple rule: features have to go in before the beta, the time between beta and release is for testing and bug fixing. So your wishes could go to 4.7 earliest. > 1. Add the really cool color ticks in the scrollbars (used for showing location of errors, found occurrences) of found occurrences to the Help, Compile, and Output panes. I figure this is a micro-feature because there is already a scrollbar that does it, and the finding ability also exists. It's just not yet applied for those panes. I'm begging for this!! I already found QTCREATORBUG-15703 and QTCREATORBUG-18333 as related requests. Does this cover all your needs? If not, feel free to add more suggestions. > 2. Add new colors for class and function definitions to the scrollbars. The idea is that the Nth color tick corresponds to the nth class/function in header files and the Nth color corresponds to the Nth function for source. (Maybe have click to jump?) I don't fully understand what you mean here... can you elaborate? Best regards, André [1] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-15703 [2] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-18333 > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) André Hartmann Softwareentwicklung / Software Development E-Mail: andre.hartmannh at iseg-hv.de | Tel: +49 351 26996-43 | Fax: +49 351 26996-21 iseg Spezialelektronik GmbH - HIGH VOLTAGE. 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If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. From b.terrier at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 11:59:25 2018 From: b.terrier at gmail.com (Benjamin TERRIER) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:59:25 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines Message-ID: Hello, Is there a way in Qt Creator to set the C++ code style so that there are no indentation spaces in empty lines? I'm looking for this, because last time I made a contribution to Qt I tried to auto indent some code and it added spaces in empty lines. This is undesirable because it goes against Qt Project code style. Also, this conflicts with the behavior of "Cleanups Upon Saving" options. Because if "Clean whitespace" is checked, it will remove the "space on empty line" added by the auto-indent function. The "clean indentation" option seems to have no effects on this, which is kind of weird, because that means that "auto-indent" and "clean indentation" do not agree on what the indentation should look like in empty lines. Regards, Benjamin From dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 12:03:01 2018 From: dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com (Dmitry Volosnykh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:03:01 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Benjamin Tools menu / Options menu item / Text Editor entry in the list on the left / Behaviour tab / Cleanups Upon Saving control group On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:59 PM Benjamin TERRIER wrote: > Hello, > > Is there a way in Qt Creator to set the C++ code style so that there > are no indentation spaces in empty lines? > > I'm looking for this, because last time I made a contribution to Qt I > tried to > auto indent some code and it added spaces in empty lines. This is > undesirable > because it goes against Qt Project code style. > > Also, this conflicts with the behavior of "Cleanups Upon Saving" options. > Because if "Clean whitespace" is checked, it will remove the "space on > empty line" added by the auto-indent function. > The "clean indentation" option seems to have no effects on this, which > is kind of weird, because that means that "auto-indent" and "clean > indentation" do not agree on what the indentation should look like in > empty lines. > > Regards, > > Benjamin > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 12:05:16 2018 From: dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com (Dmitry Volosnykh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:05:16 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Collapse all methods/classes in opened file Message-ID: Hi, is there any hot-key that allows to collapse all methods and classes in current document? Regards, Dmitry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tobias.Hunger at qt.io Thu Feb 15 12:15:21 2018 From: Tobias.Hunger at qt.io (Tobias Hunger) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:15:21 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] QtCreator support for Unreal Engine 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sander, > I was wondering if QtCreator could see some improvements in supporting > third-party builds systems and/or integration with bigger projects. Unreal > Engine 4 is one of the biggest game engines and, when you agree with > their terms, you get access to the full source code. This helped quite a > bit in supporting other platforms. I have no plans at this time to support Unreal Engine. Contributions are of course welcome, but I don't think this is something that we should offer in the core Qt Creator. It would be a wonderful 3rd party plugin though. > One of the weaker points with this engine is that for each platform you require > to adapt to a another IDE or build process. Unreal uses their own build system, > which can generate projectfiles/-solutions for various other build systems > (e.g. CMake) and IDEs. If QtCreator could integrate better with UE4 there > would be a single IDE that works on all platforms. Sure, Creator is a great IDE and if Unreal sees value in having a nice cross-platform IDE, then they are free to contribute or fork or do whatever the license allows:-) I do not see why the Qt Project should do that work though. > The official UE4 docs[1] already mention QtCreator Nice! I was not aware of that. > but if you take the time > to look at the steps the integration is very weak. Changing a build target, > variant or platform means changing the builds steps by hand. This is one > of the reasons people often recommend CodeLite for development on > Linux because that IDE allows you to switch target and variant by using > the drop down menus just like you would on Visual Studio. According to the documentation you link you should be able to switch between debug/release via creator's UI just as well, once you did the initial setup. > Is if there is willingness to add UE4 support in QtCreator I am willing to answer questions on build system integration into Creator, but I do not plan to work on this myself. > or are there ways to improve the current integration? Nothing obvious. Maybe another supported build system would work better than the half-baked .pro-file they ask you to load? I do not have UE around to test, so I don't know. Best Regards, Tobias -- Tobias Hunger, Senior Software Engineer | The Qt Company The Qt Company GmbH, Rudower Chaussee 13, D-12489 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho. Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B From Tobias.Hunger at qt.io Thu Feb 15 12:17:49 2018 From: Tobias.Hunger at qt.io (Tobias Hunger) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:17:49 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Collapse all methods/classes in opened file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dimitry, > Hi, is there any hot-key that allows to collapse all methods and classes in current document? No, but there is a "CollapseAll" action available, so you can assign one in Tools>Options>Environment>Keyboard, so you can assign one yourself. Best Regards, Tobias -- Tobias Hunger, Senior Software Engineer | The Qt Company The Qt Company GmbH, Rudower Chaussee 13, D-12489 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho. Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B From dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 12:26:19 2018 From: dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com (Dmitry Volosnykh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:26:19 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Collapse all methods/classes in opened file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried what you have suggested, but it does not work for me. Actually, this item is listed under ProjectExplorer category. What is that? Is there some menu option tied to CollapseAll action to verify its working from there? On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 2:17 PM Tobias Hunger wrote: > Hi Dimitry, > > > Hi, is there any hot-key that allows to collapse all methods and classes > in current document? > > No, but there is a "CollapseAll" action available, so you can assign one > in Tools>Options>Environment>Keyboard, so you can assign one yourself. > > Best Regards, > Tobias > > -- > Tobias Hunger, Senior Software Engineer | The Qt Company > The Qt Company GmbH, Rudower Chaussee 13, D-12489 Berl > > in > Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho. Sitz der > Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB > 144331 B > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 12:28:57 2018 From: dmitry.volosnykh at gmail.com (Dmitry Volosnykh) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:28:57 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Collapse all methods/classes in opened file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Found solution on the forum: https://forum.qt.io/topic/79391/collapse-all-methods On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 2:26 PM Dmitry Volosnykh wrote: > I tried what you have suggested, but it does not work for me. Actually, > this item is listed under ProjectExplorer category. What is that? > > Is there some menu option tied to CollapseAll action to verify its working > from there? > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 2:17 PM Tobias Hunger wrote: > >> Hi Dimitry, >> >> > Hi, is there any hot-key that allows to collapse all methods and >> classes in current document? >> >> No, but there is a "CollapseAll" action available, so you can assign one >> in Tools>Options>Environment>Keyboard, so you can assign one yourself. >> >> Best Regards, >> Tobias >> >> -- >> Tobias Hunger, Senior Software Engineer | The Qt Company >> The Qt Company GmbH, Rudower Chaussee 13, D-12489 Berl >> >> in >> Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho. Sitz der >> Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB >> 144331 B >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.terrier at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 12:59:39 2018 From: b.terrier at gmail.com (Benjamin TERRIER) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:59:39 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2018-02-15 12:03 GMT+01:00 Dmitry Volosnykh : > Hi, Benjamin > > Tools menu / Options menu item / Text Editor entry in the list on the left / > Behaviour tab / Cleanups Upon Saving control group > I know about this, I even talk about this in my email. My concern is about the auto indent function (Right Click > Auto-indent Selection) From jhihn at gmx.com Thu Feb 15 18:13:59 2018 From: jhihn at gmx.com (Jason H) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 18:13:59 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Begging for some micro-features for 4.6/4.7 In-Reply-To: <4fb59e8b-878c-8da6-78bc-d98487f09db9@iseg-hv.de> References: <4fb59e8b-878c-8da6-78bc-d98487f09db9@iseg-hv.de> Message-ID: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:27 AM > From: "André Hartmann" > To: "Jason H" , qt-creator > Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Begging for some micro-features for 4.6/4.7 > > Hi Jason, > > > I know the beta is out for 4.6, but I would like to request a few tiny "how hard could it be?" features. > > There is a simple rule: features have to go in before the beta, the time > between beta and release is for testing and bug fixing. So your wishes > could go to 4.7 earliest. > > > 1. Add the really cool color ticks in the scrollbars (used for showing location of errors, found occurrences) of found occurrences to the Help, Compile, and Output panes. I figure this is a micro-feature because there is already a scrollbar that does it, and the finding ability also exists. It's just not yet applied for those panes. I'm begging for this!! > > I already found QTCREATORBUG-15703 and QTCREATORBUG-18333 as related > requests. Does this cover all your needs? If not, feel free to add more > suggestions. YES!! That's where I put them. I did search, I didn't find them. > > > 2. Add new colors for class and function definitions to the scrollbars. The idea is that the Nth color tick corresponds to the nth class/function in header files and the Nth color corresponds to the Nth function for source. (Maybe have click to jump?) > > I don't fully understand what you mean here... can you elaborate? Sure, the idea is that the scroll bar shows key locations in the file. Change the color to indicate a class or function, and put that on the scrollbar too. > Best regards, > André Thanks Andre! From realnc at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 19:35:57 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 20:35:57 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15/02/18 13:59, Benjamin TERRIER wrote: > 2018-02-15 12:03 GMT+01:00 Dmitry Volosnykh : >> Hi, Benjamin >> >> Tools menu / Options menu item / Text Editor entry in the list on the left / >> Behaviour tab / Cleanups Upon Saving control group >> > > I know about this, I even talk about this in my email. > > My concern is about the auto indent function (Right Click > > Auto-indent Selection) If you don't save the file after auto-indenting it, then how did you end up with spaces in empty lines unless you didn't enable cleanup-on-save? From asmaloney at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 20:47:43 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:47:43 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process Message-ID: I selected "Check for Updates" from the menu. It took about 2 minutes to tell me "yes there are updates do you want to install them". I clicked yes and it launched the maintenance tool which then ran through the whole 2 minute process again (downloading manifests I presume). So it takes me roughly 5 minutes before I'm actually downloading anything. (Actually longer because I clicked the "Go back" button by accident so it downloaded it... again.) Is this working as intended? Surely the manifest(s) should be cached and only downloaded if they have changed? Thanks! --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 20:53:27 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:53:27 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II Message-ID: Usability suggestions: When the maintenance tool is done it says "Click Done to exit the Qt Wizard" - however there's a button labelled "Restart" which is the default. - "Restart" is a very bad name for this button. I understand now that it means to restart the maintenance tool (which will proceed to download the manifest yet again - see previous email :-)) - but for most software installers, "Restart" means to restart the machine. - It should not be the default button. --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhihn at gmx.com Thu Feb 15 21:45:49 2018 From: jhihn at gmx.com (Jason H) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 21:45:49 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 22:11:48 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 16:11:48 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately it has happened to me since I started using the maintenance tool, so I don't think it's a server being overloaded. Just decided to speak up this time :-) --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Jason H wrote: > I saw that as well, I think everyone is overloading the server(s) for > 5.10.1 > Once the inial download was done it was fine after that. Maybe that's not > on a CDN? > > *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM > *From:* Andy > *To:* qt-creator > *Subject:* [Qt-creator] Update process > I selected "Check for Updates" from the menu. It took about 2 minutes to > tell me "yes there are updates do you want to install them". I clicked yes > and it launched the maintenance tool which then ran through the whole 2 > minute process again (downloading manifests I presume). > > So it takes me roughly 5 minutes before I'm actually downloading anything. > > (Actually longer because I clicked the "Go back" button by accident so it > downloaded it... again.) > > Is this working as intended? Surely the manifest(s) should be cached and > only downloaded if they have changed? > > Thanks! > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney > _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/ > mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.terrier at gmail.com Thu Feb 15 23:20:36 2018 From: b.terrier at gmail.com (Benjamin TERRIER) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 23:20:36 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2018-02-15 19:35 GMT+01:00 Nikos Chantziaras : > On 15/02/18 13:59, Benjamin TERRIER wrote: >> >> 2018-02-15 12:03 GMT+01:00 Dmitry Volosnykh : >>> >>> Hi, Benjamin >>> >>> Tools menu / Options menu item / Text Editor entry in the list on the >>> left / >>> Behaviour tab / Cleanups Upon Saving control group >>> >> >> I know about this, I even talk about this in my email. >> >> My concern is about the auto indent function (Right Click > >> Auto-indent Selection) > > > If you don't save the file after auto-indenting it, then how did you end up > with spaces in empty lines unless you didn't enable cleanup-on-save? Again, I am not asking about the "cleanup on save" feature. And I never said I ended up with spaces on empty lines *after* saving the file. I am asking if there is a way to configure the auto-indent feature so that it does not generate extra spaces on empty lines. The fact that the "cleanup on save" feature, when enabled (with or without the clean indent option checked), needs to clean up what the auto indent feature just did, just proves that as-is the auto-indent feature is bugged (if not configurable). I do not expect the auto-indent feature to add whitespaces that need to be cleaned. I would rather expect the "cleanup on save" and auto indent features to produce, or at least try to produce, the same result. From realnc at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 03:24:39 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 04:24:39 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android Message-ID: 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. The error is usually something like this: qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. Is this a known bug? From ariel at edis.mx Fri Feb 16 04:43:41 2018 From: ariel at edis.mx (Ariel Molina) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 21:43:41 -0600 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I want to say the typical "me too", so: me too. I have the same delays. El 15/02/2018 3:12 p.m., "Andy" escribió: > Unfortunately it has happened to me since I started using the maintenance > tool, so I don't think it's a server being overloaded. Just decided to > speak up this time :-) > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Jason H wrote: > >> I saw that as well, I think everyone is overloading the server(s) for >> 5.10.1 >> Once the inial download was done it was fine after that. Maybe that's not >> on a CDN? >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM >> *From:* Andy >> *To:* qt-creator >> *Subject:* [Qt-creator] Update process >> I selected "Check for Updates" from the menu. It took about 2 minutes to >> tell me "yes there are updates do you want to install them". I clicked yes >> and it launched the maintenance tool which then ran through the whole 2 >> minute process again (downloading manifests I presume). >> >> So it takes me roughly 5 minutes before I'm actually downloading anything. >> >> (Actually longer because I clicked the "Go back" button by accident so it >> downloaded it... again.) >> >> Is this working as intended? Surely the manifest(s) should be cached and >> only downloaded if they have changed? >> >> Thanks! >> >> --- >> Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com >> twitter ~ @asmaloney >> _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/ma >> ilman/listinfo/qt-creator >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From realnc at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 06:41:36 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:41:36 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16/02/18 04:24, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a > non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. > > The error is usually something like this: > >   qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found >   QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] > > This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the > code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. > > Is this a known bug? Well, actually it seems even the built-in code model has issues with Android. In both cases, standard C++ headers cannot be found. Only standard C headers work. So this: #include appears underlined with the pop-up error message being "no such file or directory". But this: #include works fine. From ivan.donchevskii at qt.io Fri Feb 16 08:13:49 2018 From: ivan.donchevskii at qt.io (Ivan Donchevskii) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:13:49 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: ClangCodeModel should work fine if you have set up your Android toolkit properly. I'm able to reproduce your issue when I have wrong NDK location set in the Android settings (settings->devices->android). Point the proper folder and your errors should be gone. Kind regards, Ivan ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Nikos Chantziaras Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 6:41:36 AM To: qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android On 16/02/18 04:24, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a > non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. > > The error is usually something like this: > > qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found > QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] > > This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the > code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. > > Is this a known bug? Well, actually it seems even the built-in code model has issues with Android. In both cases, standard C++ headers cannot be found. Only standard C headers work. So this: #include appears underlined with the pop-up error message being "no such file or directory". But this: #include works fine. _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From realnc at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 08:31:53 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:31:53 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The NDK path is set up correctly: https://i.imgur.com/3fSaHnQ.png On 16/02/18 09:13, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: > ClangCodeModel should work fine if you have set up your Android toolkit > properly. > > > I'm able to reproduce your issue when I have wrong NDK location set in > the Android settings (settings->devices->android). > > Point the proper folder and your errors should be gone. > > > Kind regards, > > Ivan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Qt-creator > on behalf of > Nikos Chantziaras > *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 6:41:36 AM > *To:* qt-creator at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android > On 16/02/18 04:24, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a >> non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. >> >> The error is usually something like this: >> >>    qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found >>    QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] >> >> This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the >> code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. >> >> Is this a known bug? > > Well, actually it seems even the built-in code model has issues with > Android. > > In both cases, standard C++ headers cannot be found. Only standard C > headers work. So this: > >    #include > > appears underlined with the pop-up error message being "no such file or > directory". > > But this: > >    #include > > works fine. > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > From mitch.curtis at qt.io Fri Feb 16 08:37:57 2018 From: mitch.curtis at qt.io (Mitch Curtis) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:37:57 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While you’re speaking up, please vote as well! :D https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-975 From: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+mitch.curtis=qt.io at qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 10:12 PM To: Jason H Cc: qt-creator Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Update process Unfortunately it has happened to me since I started using the maintenance tool, so I don't think it's a server being overloaded. Just decided to speak up this time :-) --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Jason H > wrote: I saw that as well, I think everyone is overloading the server(s) for 5.10.1 Once the inial download was done it was fine after that. Maybe that's not on a CDN? Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM From: Andy > To: qt-creator > Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process I selected "Check for Updates" from the menu. It took about 2 minutes to tell me "yes there are updates do you want to install them". I clicked yes and it launched the maintenance tool which then ran through the whole 2 minute process again (downloading manifests I presume). So it takes me roughly 5 minutes before I'm actually downloading anything. (Actually longer because I clicked the "Go back" button by accident so it downloaded it... again.) Is this working as intended? Surely the manifest(s) should be cached and only downloaded if they have changed? Thanks! --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.donchevskii at qt.io Fri Feb 16 08:39:12 2018 From: ivan.donchevskii at qt.io (Ivan Donchevskii) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:39:12 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Ok, than it's weird. I'm using much newer NDK (16 in my case vs 10 in your) but this should not be the case. So does that mean that your toolkit shows no red icon? Anyways. Can you please create a bugreport at bugreports.qt.io? Regards, Ivan ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Nikos Chantziaras Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 8:31:53 AM To: qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android The NDK path is set up correctly: https://i.imgur.com/3fSaHnQ.png On 16/02/18 09:13, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: > ClangCodeModel should work fine if you have set up your Android toolkit > properly. > > > I'm able to reproduce your issue when I have wrong NDK location set in > the Android settings (settings->devices->android). > > Point the proper folder and your errors should be gone. > > > Kind regards, > > Ivan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Qt-creator > on behalf of > Nikos Chantziaras > *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 6:41:36 AM > *To:* qt-creator at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android > On 16/02/18 04:24, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a >> non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. >> >> The error is usually something like this: >> >> qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found >> QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] >> >> This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the >> code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. >> >> Is this a known bug? > > Well, actually it seems even the built-in code model has issues with > Android. > > In both cases, standard C++ headers cannot be found. Only standard C > headers work. So this: > > #include > > appears underlined with the pop-up error message being "no such file or > directory". > > But this: > > #include > > works fine. > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mitch.curtis at qt.io Fri Feb 16 08:43:23 2018 From: mitch.curtis at qt.io (Mitch Curtis) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:43:23 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You’re better off creating a bug report, as your suggestions will likely get buried here. If you post your suggestions, and *also* a link to the bug report, then you might get other uses who are interested to watch and vote for your suggestion. From: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+mitch.curtis=qt.io at qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:53 PM To: qt-creator Subject: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II Usability suggestions: When the maintenance tool is done it says "Click Done to exit the Qt Wizard" - however there's a button labelled "Restart" which is the default. - "Restart" is a very bad name for this button. I understand now that it means to restart the maintenance tool (which will proceed to download the manifest yet again - see previous email :-)) - but for most software installers, "Restart" means to restart the machine. - It should not be the default button. --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julius.bullinger at intel.com Fri Feb 16 08:58:07 2018 From: julius.bullinger at intel.com (Bullinger, Julius) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:58:07 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7FC8D04D3E708B4AA8248F6D64E0CB2136BF99F8@IRSMSX104.ger.corp.intel.com> [top-posting for consistency] Also, keep in mind that the issues concern the Qt Installer Framework, which is independent from Qt Creator. You will have more success filing them for the QTIFW project. And maybe move the discussion to [interest], [development] or [releasing]. Regards Julius From: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+julius.bullinger=intel.com at qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Mitch Curtis Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 08:43 To: Andy ; qt-creator Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II You’re better off creating a bug report, as your suggestions will likely get buried here. If you post your suggestions, and *also* a link to the bug report, then you might get other uses who are interested to watch and vote for your suggestion. From: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+mitch.curtis=qt.io at qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:53 PM To: qt-creator > Subject: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II Usability suggestions: When the maintenance tool is done it says "Click Done to exit the Qt Wizard" - however there's a button labelled "Restart" which is the default. - "Restart" is a very bad name for this button. I understand now that it means to restart the maintenance tool (which will proceed to download the manifest yet again - see previous email :-)) - but for most software installers, "Restart" means to restart the machine. - It should not be the default button. --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney Intel Deutschland GmbH Registered Address: Am Campeon 10-12, 85579 Neubiberg, Germany Tel: +49 89 99 8853-0, www.intel.de Managing Directors: Christin Eisenschmid, Christian Lamprechter Chairperson of the Supervisory Board: Nicole Lau Registered Office: Munich Commercial Register: Amtsgericht Muenchen HRB 186928 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From realnc at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 09:15:30 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:15:30 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No red icons in the toolkits. Anyway, I just installed NDK r16b, and the problem is gone. I was using r10 because it was recommended multiple times here, and IIRC also in the Qt documentation. (Apparently newer NDKs cause problems with Qt?) On 16/02/18 09:39, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: > Ok, than it's weird. I'm using much newer NDK (16 in my case vs 10 in > your) but this should not be the case. > > So does that mean that your toolkit shows no red icon? > > > Anyways. Can you please create a bugreport at bugreports.qt.io? > > > Regards, > > Ivan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Qt-creator > on behalf of > Nikos Chantziaras > *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 8:31:53 AM > *To:* qt-creator at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android > The NDK path is set up correctly: > > https://i.imgur.com/3fSaHnQ.png > > > > On 16/02/18 09:13, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: >> ClangCodeModel should work fine if you have set up your Android toolkit >> properly. >> >> >> I'm able to reproduce your issue when I have wrong NDK location set in >> the Android settings (settings->devices->android). >> >> Point the proper folder and your errors should be gone. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Ivan >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Qt-creator >> on behalf of >> Nikos Chantziaras >> *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 6:41:36 AM >> *To:* qt-creator at qt-project.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android >> On 16/02/18 04:24, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a >>> non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. >>> >>> The error is usually something like this: >>> >>>    qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found >>>    QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] >>> >>> This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the >>> code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. >>> >>> Is this a known bug? >> >> Well, actually it seems even the built-in code model has issues with >> Android. >> >> In both cases, standard C++ headers cannot be found. Only standard C >> headers work. So this: >> >>     #include >> >> appears underlined with the pop-up error message being "no such file or >> directory". >> >> But this: >> >>     #include >> >> works fine. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > From Eike.Ziller at qt.io Fri Feb 16 09:18:58 2018 From: Eike.Ziller at qt.io (Eike Ziller) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:18:58 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FE55088-DA34-4985-8852-06EFFC1F2EB0@qt.io> > On 15. Feb 2018, at 23:20, Benjamin TERRIER wrote: > > 2018-02-15 19:35 GMT+01:00 Nikos Chantziaras : >> On 15/02/18 13:59, Benjamin TERRIER wrote: >>> >>> 2018-02-15 12:03 GMT+01:00 Dmitry Volosnykh : >>>> >>>> Hi, Benjamin >>>> >>>> Tools menu / Options menu item / Text Editor entry in the list on the >>>> left / >>>> Behaviour tab / Cleanups Upon Saving control group >>>> >>> >>> I know about this, I even talk about this in my email. >>> >>> My concern is about the auto indent function (Right Click > >>> Auto-indent Selection) >> >> >> If you don't save the file after auto-indenting it, then how did you end up >> with spaces in empty lines unless you didn't enable cleanup-on-save? > > Again, I am not asking about the "cleanup on save" feature. > And I never said I ended up with spaces on empty lines *after* saving the file. > > I am asking if there is a way to configure the auto-indent feature so > that it does not > generate extra spaces on empty lines. It should definitely not add extra spaces on empty lines. That sounds very much like a bug to me. Probably one that no one found because of the clean-on-save feature, but still. Please --> https://bugreports.qt.io Br, Eike > The fact that the "cleanup on save" feature, when enabled (with or > without the clean indent option > checked), needs to clean up what the auto indent feature just did, > just proves that as-is > the auto-indent feature is bugged (if not configurable). > > I do not expect the auto-indent feature to add whitespaces that need > to be cleaned. > I would rather expect the "cleanup on save" and auto indent features to produce, > or at least try to produce, the same result. > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -- Eike Ziller Principal Software Engineer The Qt Company GmbH Rudower Chaussee 13 D-12489 Berlin eike.ziller at qt.io http://qt.io Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B From Eike.Ziller at qt.io Fri Feb 16 09:30:21 2018 From: Eike.Ziller at qt.io (Eike Ziller) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 08:30:21 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <174134BD-07ED-49AD-ABCA-FB84CC069029@qt.io> Afaik the opensource online content is loaded from our MirrorBrain instance at https://download.qt.io/online/qtsdkrepository/ . So any kind of connection speed also depends a lot on the mirror that you get assigned for a file. The count of individual URLs that are retrieved are probably not helping either ;) (as described in https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-975). Though here retrieving the meta data takes more something like 20 seconds. Br, Eike > On 16. Feb 2018, at 08:37, Mitch Curtis wrote: > > While you’re speaking up, please vote as well! :D > > https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-975 > > From: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+mitch.curtis=qt.io at qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Andy > Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 10:12 PM > To: Jason H > Cc: qt-creator > Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Update process > > Unfortunately it has happened to me since I started using the maintenance tool, so I don't think it's a server being overloaded. Just decided to speak up this time :-) > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Jason H wrote: > I saw that as well, I think everyone is overloading the server(s) for 5.10.1 > Once the inial download was done it was fine after that. Maybe that's not on a CDN? > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM > From: Andy > To: qt-creator > Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process > I selected "Check for Updates" from the menu. It took about 2 minutes to tell me "yes there are updates do you want to install them". I clicked yes and it launched the maintenance tool which then ran through the whole 2 minute process again (downloading manifests I presume). > > So it takes me roughly 5 minutes before I'm actually downloading anything. > > (Actually longer because I clicked the "Go back" button by accident so it downloaded it... again.) > > Is this working as intended? Surely the manifest(s) should be cached and only downloaded if they have changed? > > Thanks! > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney > _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -- Eike Ziller Principal Software Engineer The Qt Company GmbH Rudower Chaussee 13 D-12489 Berlin eike.ziller at qt.io http://qt.io Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B From b.terrier at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 11:32:54 2018 From: b.terrier at gmail.com (Benjamin TERRIER) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:32:54 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2018-02-16 9:15 GMT+01:00 Nikos Chantziaras : > No red icons in the toolkits. > > Anyway, I just installed NDK r16b, and the problem is gone. > > I was using r10 because it was recommended multiple times here, and IIRC > also in the Qt documentation. (Apparently newer NDKs cause problems with > Qt?) Hi, See bug report "r11x gcc-4.9 miscompiles Qt": https://github.com/android-ndk/ndk/issues/67 This will not be fixed, because gcc has been deprecated in favor of clang for Android. Regards, Benjamin From b.terrier at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 11:46:09 2018 From: b.terrier at gmail.com (Benjamin TERRIER) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:46:09 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] C++ Code Style and empty lines In-Reply-To: <9FE55088-DA34-4985-8852-06EFFC1F2EB0@qt.io> References: <9FE55088-DA34-4985-8852-06EFFC1F2EB0@qt.io> Message-ID: 2018-02-16 9:18 GMT+01:00 Eike Ziller : > > It should definitely not add extra spaces on empty lines. That sounds very much like a bug to me. Probably one that no one found because of the clean-on-save feature, but still. > Please --> https://bugreports.qt.io > > Br, Eike Done: https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-19828 Regards, Benjamin From asmaloney at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 13:09:57 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:09:57 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process In-Reply-To: <174134BD-07ED-49AD-ABCA-FB84CC069029@qt.io> References: <174134BD-07ED-49AD-ABCA-FB84CC069029@qt.io> Message-ID: Thank you everyone. Surprised there's no cacheing, but glad it's a known issue :-) Voted! --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 3:30 AM, Eike Ziller wrote: > Afaik the opensource online content is loaded from our MirrorBrain > instance at https://download.qt.io/online/qtsdkrepository/ . > So any kind of connection speed also depends a lot on the mirror that you > get assigned for a file. > > The count of individual URLs that are retrieved are probably not helping > either ;) (as described in https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-975). > > Though here retrieving the meta data takes more something like 20 seconds. > > Br, Eike > > > On 16. Feb 2018, at 08:37, Mitch Curtis wrote: > > > > While you’re speaking up, please vote as well! :D > > > > https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-975 > > > > From: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+mitch.curtis= > qt.io at qt-project.org] On Behalf Of Andy > > Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 10:12 PM > > To: Jason H > > Cc: qt-creator > > Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Update process > > > > Unfortunately it has happened to me since I started using the > maintenance tool, so I don't think it's a server being overloaded. Just > decided to speak up this time :-) > > > > --- > > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 3:45 PM, Jason H wrote: > > I saw that as well, I think everyone is overloading the server(s) for > 5.10.1 > > Once the inial download was done it was fine after that. Maybe that's > not on a CDN? > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 2:47 PM > > From: Andy > > To: qt-creator > > Subject: [Qt-creator] Update process > > I selected "Check for Updates" from the menu. It took about 2 minutes to > tell me "yes there are updates do you want to install them". I clicked yes > and it launched the maintenance tool which then ran through the whole 2 > minute process again (downloading manifests I presume). > > > > So it takes me roughly 5 minutes before I'm actually downloading > anything. > > > > (Actually longer because I clicked the "Go back" button by accident so > it downloaded it... again.) > > > > Is this working as intended? Surely the manifest(s) should be cached and > only downloaded if they have changed? > > > > Thanks! > > > > --- > > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/ > mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Qt-creator mailing list > > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -- > Eike Ziller > Principal Software Engineer > > The Qt Company GmbH > Rudower Chaussee 13 > D-12489 Berlin > eike.ziller at qt.io > http://qt.io > Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, > Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht > Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 13:33:07 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 07:33:07 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II In-Reply-To: <7FC8D04D3E708B4AA8248F6D64E0CB2136BF99F8@IRSMSX104.ger.corp.intel.com> References: <7FC8D04D3E708B4AA8248F6D64E0CB2136BF99F8@IRSMSX104.ger.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys. I should have known better. I'll go stand in the corner for 10 minutes. :-) https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-970 - Maintenance Tool button 'Finish' should be default after updating https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTIFW-1098 - {UX} Maintenance Tool "Restart" button should be renamed --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 2:58 AM, Bullinger, Julius < julius.bullinger at intel.com> wrote: > [top-posting for consistency] > > > > Also, keep in mind that the issues concern the Qt Installer Framework, > which is independent from Qt Creator. You will have more success filing > them for the QTIFW project. And maybe move the discussion to [interest], > [development] or [releasing]. > > > > Regards > > Julius > > > > *From:* Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+julius.bullinger= > intel.com at qt-project.org] *On Behalf Of *Mitch Curtis > *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 08:43 > *To:* Andy ; qt-creator > *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] Updating Part II > > > > You’re better off creating a bug report, as your suggestions will likely > get buried here. If you post your suggestions, and *also* a link to the bug > report, then you might get other uses who are interested to watch and vote > for your suggestion. > > > > *From:* Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+ > mitch.curtis=qt.io at qt-project.org > ] *On Behalf Of * > Andy > *Sent:* Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:53 PM > *To:* qt-creator > *Subject:* [Qt-creator] Updating Part II > > > > Usability suggestions: > > When the maintenance tool is done it says "Click Done to exit the Qt > Wizard" - however there's a button labelled "Restart" which is the default. > > - "Restart" is a very bad name for this button. I understand now that it > means to restart the maintenance tool (which will proceed to download the > manifest yet again - see previous email :-)) - but for most software > installers, "Restart" means to restart the machine. > > - It should not be the default button. > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > > > Intel Deutschland GmbH > Registered Address: Am Campeon 10-12, 85579 Neubiberg, Germany > Tel: +49 89 99 8853-0, www.intel.de > Managing Directors: Christin Eisenschmid, Christian Lamprechter > Chairperson of the Supervisory Board: Nicole Lau > Registered Office: Munich > Commercial Register: Amtsgericht Muenchen HRB 186928 > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jyrkiylinokari at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 17:27:46 2018 From: jyrkiylinokari at gmail.com (Jyrki Yli-Nokari) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 18:27:46 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] Begging for some micro-features for 4.6/4.7 In-Reply-To: <4fb59e8b-878c-8da6-78bc-d98487f09db9@iseg-hv.de> References: <4fb59e8b-878c-8da6-78bc-d98487f09db9@iseg-hv.de> Message-ID: <7E84B5E8-B316-440A-A898-36B951DC7BCD@gmail.com> Adding to that, it would be also helpful to see in the editor the changed locations of the file. That is, the parts of the file marked red on the left, also highlighted in the scrollbar. This is especially helpful for QML files that gets changed moving components in the designer, as typically I need to modify the absolute location to relative. Other than that, the designer is an excellent tool > André Hartmann kirjoitti 15.2.2018 kello 9.27: > > Hi Jason, > >> I know the beta is out for 4.6, but I would like to request a few tiny "how hard could it be?" features. > > There is a simple rule: features have to go in before the beta, the time between beta and release is for testing and bug fixing. So your wishes could go to 4.7 earliest. > >> 1. Add the really cool color ticks in the scrollbars (used for showing location of errors, found occurrences) of found occurrences to the Help, Compile, and Output panes. I figure this is a micro-feature because there is already a scrollbar that does it, and the finding ability also exists. It's just not yet applied for those panes. I'm begging for this!! > > I already found QTCREATORBUG-15703 and QTCREATORBUG-18333 as related requests. Does this cover all your needs? If not, feel free to add more suggestions. > >> 2. Add new colors for class and function definitions to the scrollbars. The idea is that the Nth color tick corresponds to the nth class/function in header files and the Nth color corresponds to the Nth function for source. (Maybe have click to jump?) > > I don't fully understand what you mean here... can you elaborate? > > Best regards, > André > > [1] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-15703 > [2] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-18333 > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. (FH) André Hartmann > Softwareentwicklung / Software Development > > E-Mail: andre.hartmannh at iseg-hv.de | Tel: +49 351 26996-43 | Fax: +49 351 26996-21 > > iseg Spezialelektronik GmbH - HIGH VOLTAGE. EXACTLY. > iseg-hv.de | iseg-hv.com | download.iseg-hv.com > > Bautzner Landstr. 23, 01454 Radeberg / Rossendorf, Germany > Geschäftsführer / Managing directors: Dr. Frank Gleisberg, Dr. Joachim Pöthig > Amtsgericht / Lower district court: Dresden HRB 16250 > Umsatzsteuer-Id: / VAT-ID: DE812508942 > > News / Information > https://iseg-hv.com/en/products/control#isegControl2 isegControl2 - Unified Control Software > https://iseg-hv.com/en/products/detail/EHS EHS FLEX - Customize and keep the price > https://iseg-hv.com/en/products/detail/EHS EHS STACK - Perfect for GEM Detectors > https://iseg-hv.com/files/iseg-high-voltage-power-supplies.pdf NEW! Product catalog 2017 / 2018 released > https://iseg-hv.com/en/products/detail/NHR NHR - NIM HV-Supply with reversible polarity > > Links > https://www.linkedin.com/company/12726924 iseg on LINKEDIN | Let's stay connected! > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5AL-ZgOqSim_1gYNnndyzQ iseg on YOUTUBE | Tutorials and more ... > https://www.twitter.com/iseg_hv iseg on TWITTER | please follow! > https://iseg-hv.com/files/iseg-high-voltage-power-supplies.pdf iseg CATALOG | download product catalog as PDF > http://download.iseg-hv.com/ iseg DOWNLOADS | manuals, software, firmware and more... > > Diese E-Mail enthält vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich geschützte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige > Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender und > vernichten Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nicht > gestattet. > > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient > (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. > Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From realnc at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 21:24:31 2018 From: realnc at gmail.com (Nikos Chantziaras) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 22:24:31 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I created the bug report: https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-19835 On 16/02/18 09:39, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: > Ok, than it's weird. I'm using much newer NDK (16 in my case vs 10 in > your) but this should not be the case. > > So does that mean that your toolkit shows no red icon? > > > Anyways. Can you please create a bugreport at bugreports.qt.io? > > > Regards, > > Ivan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Qt-creator > on behalf of > Nikos Chantziaras > *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 8:31:53 AM > *To:* qt-creator at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android > The NDK path is set up correctly: > > https://i.imgur.com/3fSaHnQ.png > > > > On 16/02/18 09:13, Ivan Donchevskii wrote: >> ClangCodeModel should work fine if you have set up your Android toolkit >> properly. >> >> >> I'm able to reproduce your issue when I have wrong NDK location set in >> the Android settings (settings->devices->android). >> >> Point the proper folder and your errors should be gone. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Ivan >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Qt-creator >> on behalf of >> Nikos Chantziaras >> *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 6:41:36 AM >> *To:* qt-creator at qt-project.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Qt-creator] [4.6] Clang code model doesn't work on Android >> On 16/02/18 04:24, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> 4.6 beta1, but also the latest rc1 snapshot (15 Feb), seem to have a >>> non-working Clang code model when using an Android kit. >>> >>> The error is usually something like this: >>> >>>    qglobal.h:45:12: fatal error: 'type_traits' file not found >>>    QDebug:1:10: note: in file included from [...] >>> >>> This is printed by the yellow warning sign at the top. As a result, the >>> code model is completely broken for the rest of the file. >>> >>> Is this a known bug? >> >> Well, actually it seems even the built-in code model has issues with >> Android. >> >> In both cases, standard C++ headers cannot be found. Only standard C >> headers work. So this: >> >>     #include >> >> appears underlined with the pop-up error message being "no such file or >> directory". >> >> But this: >> >>     #include >> >> works fine. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > From vivaladav at gmail.com Wed Feb 21 10:29:04 2018 From: vivaladav at gmail.com (Davide Coppola) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 10:29:04 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] market share of C++ IDEs Message-ID: Hi, recently I have been running several polls to find out what are the most used C/C++ IDEs. Yesterday I published the results and I thought to share them with the Qt Creator developers. Probably you already know the "real" numbers, but I thought it could be interesting to see another source and to compare them. I would also recommend to check out this Reddit thread , where people are commenting about the IDE they use. In particular the second top comment. ;-) Cheers -- *Davide Coppola* *website:* http://www.davidecoppola.com *blog:* http://blog.davidecoppola.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Riitta-Leena.Miettinen at qt.io Thu Feb 22 09:43:58 2018 From: Riitta-Leena.Miettinen at qt.io (Riitta-Leena Miettinen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:43:58 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Reviewing the Qt Creator 4.6 Manual Message-ID: Hello, The beta version of Qt Creator 4.6 has been released (https://blog.qt.io/blog/2018/02/07/qt-creator-4-6-beta-released/) and we are approaching the release candidate (https://wiki.qt.io/Qt_Creator_Releases). I've documented the changes I am aware of, but I need your help to make sure that I found all of them. So, please review the documentation for the areas that you have been working on, or are otherwise familiar with. The documentation snapshot is here: http://doc-snapshots.qt.io/qtcreator-4.6/index.html If you notice anything that needs changing, you can create a patch or a bug report or send me email. Thanks, Leena Leena Miettinen Documentation Engineer The Qt Company Germany GmbH Rudower Chaussee 13 D-12489, Berlin, Germany Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B riitta-leena.miettinen at qt.io +49 30 63 92 3255 http://qt.io [http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/qt-files/logos/qt_logo_with_text_green_rgb_400x141.png] [http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/qt-files/logos/SoMe/qt_facebook.png] [http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/qt-files/logos/SoMe/qt_twitter.png] [http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/qt-files/logos/SoMe/qt_linkedin.png] [http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/qt-files/logos/SoMe/qt_googleplus.png] [http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/qt-files/logos/SoMe/qt_youtube.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image018.png Type: image/png Size: 1714 bytes Desc: image018.png URL: From tino.pyssysalo at qt.io Thu Feb 22 12:04:14 2018 From: tino.pyssysalo at qt.io (Tino Pyssysalo) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:04:14 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Message-ID: Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tuukka.turunen at qt.io Thu Feb 22 14:14:14 2018 From: tuukka.turunen at qt.io (Tuukka Turunen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:14:14 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Message-ID: Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Simon.Hausmann at qt.io Thu Feb 22 14:26:57 2018 From: Simon.Hausmann at qt.io (Simon Hausmann) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:26:57 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryein.goddard at gmail.com Thu Feb 22 14:39:38 2018 From: ryein.goddard at gmail.com (Ryein Goddard) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:39:38 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be completely honest I think it is 100% useless.  If you don't know what people are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with them.  You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not just take a few surveys a year? On 02/22/2018 08:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote: > > Hi, > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / > frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to > and how is it accessible to the community? > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > Simon > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Development > on behalf of > Tuukka Turunen > *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > *To:* Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; > development at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for > telemetry plugin in Qt Creator > > Hi, > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? > This item could be useful also for other applications. > > Yours, > > Tuukka > > *From: *Qt-creator > on behalf of > Tino Pyssysalo > *Date: *Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 > *To: *"qt-creator at qt-project.org" > *Subject: *[Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in > Qt Creator > > Description: > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to > help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design > mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to > the user. > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > --- > > Tino Pyssysalo > > Senior Manager > > The Qt Company > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > +358 40 8615475 > > http://qt.io > > The future is Written with Qt > > --- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Thu Feb 22 14:39:55 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:39:55 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If non-Qt Company people have a voice, I'm with Simon. More info is needed. Do you see this shipping as a built-in plugin for Qt Creator? If so, would this data collection be opt-in? How is the user informed about exactly what is being collected and how the data is used? --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote: > Hi, > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend > fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it > accessible to the community? > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > Simon > ------------------------------ > *From:* Development qt.io at qt-project.org> on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > *To:* Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; > development at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for > telemetry plugin in Qt Creator > > > > > Hi, > > > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This > item could be useful also for other applications. > > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > *From: *Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > *Date: *Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 > *To: *"qt-creator at qt-project.org" > *Subject: *[Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt > Creator > > > > Description: > > > > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. > > > > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > > > > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > > > > > --- > > Tino Pyssysalo > > Senior Manager > > > > The Qt Company > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > +358 40 8615475 <+358%2040%208615475> > > http://qt.io > > > > The future is Written with Qt > > --- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annulen at yandex.ru Thu Feb 22 14:42:55 2018 From: annulen at yandex.ru (Konstantin Tokarev) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:42:55 +0300 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" : > This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be completely honest I think it is 100% useless.  If you don't know what people are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with them.  You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not just take a few surveys a year? Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend > > On 02/22/2018 08:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? >> >> (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) >> >> Simon >> ---------------------------------------- >> From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM >> To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org >> Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >> >> Hi, >> >> +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. >> >> Yours, >> >>                              Tuukka >> >> From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo >> Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 >> To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" >> Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >> >> Description: >> >> Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. >> >> Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. >> >> Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo >> >> Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry >> >> --- >> >> Tino Pyssysalo >> >> Senior Manager >> >> The Qt Company >> >> Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 >> >> 33100 Tampere, Finland >> >> tino.pyssysalo at qt.io >> >> +358 40 8615475 >> >> http://qt.io >> >> The future is Written with Qt >> >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > , > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator --  Regards, Konstantin From ryein.goddard at gmail.com Thu Feb 22 14:44:34 2018 From: ryein.goddard at gmail.com (Ryein Goddard) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:44:34 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: I think memory leaks and different backends should be tested by Qt. Customers/Users are not your beta testers. On 02/22/2018 08:42 AM, Konstantin Tokarev wrote: > > 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" : >> This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be completely honest I think it is 100% useless.  If you don't know what people are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with them.  You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not just take a few surveys a year? > Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend > >> On 02/22/2018 08:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? >>> >>> (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) >>> >>> Simon >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen >>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM >>> To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org >>> Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>>                              Tuukka >>> >>> From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo >>> Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 >>> To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" >>> Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >>> >>> Description: >>> >>> Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. >>> >>> Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. >>> >>> Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo >>> >>> Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry >>> >>> --- >>> >>> Tino Pyssysalo >>> >>> Senior Manager >>> >>> The Qt Company >>> >>> Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 >>> >>> 33100 Tampere, Finland >>> >>> tino.pyssysalo at qt.io >>> >>> +358 40 8615475 >>> >>> http://qt.io >>> >>> The future is Written with Qt >>> >>> --- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> , >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -- > Regards, > Konstantin From tuukka.turunen at qt.io Thu Feb 22 14:47:40 2018 From: tuukka.turunen at qt.io (Tuukka Turunen) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:47:40 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Simon, Is that an item to decide at repo creation time or something to address later during implementation / code review? For example consider requesting a repo for qt/qtcharts – should we have known what data users want to visualize with it before having a repository (or only during the implementation of the feature)? That said, I do agree that we should discuss about the topic if we are to collect user analytics data – and to also learn what kind of data is valuable to collect (noting that there are strict rules for anything that can be considered personal data). My view is that creating the requested repository and developing the code in the open is very good for transparency and also provides good opportunities for discussion during the implementation. Yours, Tuukka From: Simon Hausmann Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 15.26 To: Tuukka Turunen , Tino Pyssysalo , "qt-creator at qt-project.org" , "development at qt-project.org" Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Marco.Bubke at qt.io Thu Feb 22 14:54:33 2018 From: Marco.Bubke at qt.io (Marco Bubke) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:54:33 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> References: , <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: > Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend We have a crash handler in the works, which is much more useful than this. And memory leaks can simply be investigated simply by debugging. I don't see how this plugin could help here. Anyway, we disabled the crash recovery already, so most memory leaks should be gone. ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Konstantin Tokarev Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:42:55 PM To: Ryein Goddard; Simon Hausmann Cc: development at qt-project.org; qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" : > This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be completely honest I think it is 100% useless. If you don't know what people are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with them. You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with. Why not just take a few surveys a year? Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend > > On 02/22/2018 08:26 AM, Simon Hausmann wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? >> >> (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) >> >> Simon >> ---------------------------------------- >> From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM >> To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org >> Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >> >> Hi, >> >> +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. >> >> Yours, >> >> Tuukka >> >> From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo >> Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 >> To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" >> Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >> >> Description: >> >> Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. >> >> Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. >> >> Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo >> >> Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry >> >> --- >> >> Tino Pyssysalo >> >> Senior Manager >> >> The Qt Company >> >> Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 >> >> 33100 Tampere, Finland >> >> tino.pyssysalo at qt.io >> >> +358 40 8615475 >> >> http://qt.io >> >> The future is Written with Qt >> >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > , > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -- Regards, Konstantin _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Thu Feb 22 14:54:46 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:54:46 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Tuukka Turunen wrote: > > > Hi Simon, > > > > Is that an item to decide at repo creation time or something to address > later during implementation / code review? For example consider requesting > a repo for qt/qtcharts – should we have known what data users want to > visualize with it before having a repository (or only during the > implementation of the feature)? > I understand where you're coming from, but to me that's a different case. The whole purpose of this plugin you're describing is to collect data on user activities. We have to decide if we want to add that capability at all and it makes sense in this case (to me) to have that discussion before this is added as a repo. For me, if this is not an opt-in tool and it doesn't explain exactly what it's collecting, who gets the data, and how it's used, then I'm absolutely -1. > > That said, I do agree that we should discuss about the topic if we are to > collect user analytics data – and to also learn what kind of data is > valuable to collect (noting that there are strict rules for anything that > can be considered personal data). My view is that creating the requested > repository and developing the code in the open is very good for > transparency and also provides good opportunities for discussion during the > implementation. > > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > *From: *Simon Hausmann > *Date: *Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 15.26 > *To: *Tuukka Turunen , Tino Pyssysalo < > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io>, "qt-creator at qt-project.org" < > qt-creator at qt-project.org>, "development at qt-project.org" < > development at qt-project.org> > > *Subject: *Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for > telemetry plugin in Qt Creator > > > > Hi, > > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend > fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it > accessible to the community? > > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > > Simon > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Development qt.io at qt-project.org> on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > *To:* Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; > development at qt-project.org > *Subject:* Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for > telemetry plugin in Qt Creator > > > > > > Hi, > > > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This > item could be useful also for other applications. > > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > *From: *Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > *Date: *Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 > *To: *"qt-creator at qt-project.org" > *Subject: *[Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt > Creator > > > > Description: > > > > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. > > > > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > > > > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > > > > > --- > > Tino Pyssysalo > > Senior Manager > > > > The Qt Company > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > +358 40 8615475 <+358%2040%208615475> > > http://qt.io > > > > The future is Written with Qt > > --- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Simon.Hausmann at qt.io Thu Feb 22 14:58:11 2018 From: Simon.Hausmann at qt.io (Simon Hausmann) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:58:11 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Hi, For the charts it's indeed not so relevant what kind of charts we can visualize. That is an implementation detail indeed. But whether visualization data in charts is relevant to the users of Qt and whether we would like to make this part of the Qt project is certainly a question we'd clarify up-front before commencing development. With the given description in this request, it is not evident to me how this fits into the scope of the Qt project, hence my question. I'm not asking about the protocol details, encoding format and memory consumption. I'm wondering about how the requested repository fits into Qt, and that is not clear to me with the provided information. I don't feel that this is an implementation question, it's as fundamental as the name of the repository itself. Differently put: I'm giving -1 simply because I think more information should be presented to clarify the scope. I'm not saying that this would never ever fit into Qt. We request the same for other modules (say cloudmessaging), so I think it makes sense to do that here, too. Simon ________________________________ From: Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:47:40 PM To: Simon Hausmann; Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi Simon, Is that an item to decide at repo creation time or something to address later during implementation / code review? For example consider requesting a repo for qt/qtcharts – should we have known what data users want to visualize with it before having a repository (or only during the implementation of the feature)? That said, I do agree that we should discuss about the topic if we are to collect user analytics data – and to also learn what kind of data is valuable to collect (noting that there are strict rules for anything that can be considered personal data). My view is that creating the requested repository and developing the code in the open is very good for transparency and also provides good opportunities for discussion during the implementation. Yours, Tuukka From: Simon Hausmann Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 15.26 To: Tuukka Turunen , Tino Pyssysalo , "qt-creator at qt-project.org" , "development at qt-project.org" Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tino.pyssysalo at qt.io Thu Feb 22 14:58:55 2018 From: tino.pyssysalo at qt.io (Tino Pyssysalo) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:58:55 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Marco.Bubke at qt.io Thu Feb 22 15:36:34 2018 From: Marco.Bubke at qt.io (Marco Bubke) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:36:34 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> References: , <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: It would be nice if you can explain what data you want to collect and how it will be help the creator development. In my view it is quite hard to collect data about not implemented features, so you could only provide information about what feature is used. So the data could be used to see what should be polished. But could this not lead to false impression because people don't use a 'very useful' features because the implementation is 'suboptimal'. Would in that case not JIRA a much better source of information? ________________________________ From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:58:55 PM To: Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Simon.Hausmann at qt.io Thu Feb 22 15:45:43 2018 From: Simon.Hausmann at qt.io (Simon Hausmann) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:45:43 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> References: , <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks for the update, this is starting to make more sense to me. So do I understand correctly that you'd like to have one API that you could use from a proprietary Qt Creator plugin (for commercial tooling) as well as from the installer framework, and the repository that you're requesting contains that API, along with the ability to dispatch to a variable backend? Beyond the dispatching, what functionality would you want to place into such a repository? Can you explain what these two use-cases have in common, beyond a too generic "void collectData(const QString &key, const QVariant &value)" type of functionality? A better understanding of the common patterns and the API helps in finding a good name I think. Simon ________________________________ From: Tino Pyssysalo Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:58:55 PM To: Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.loehning at qt.io Thu Feb 22 17:17:00 2018 From: robert.loehning at qt.io (=?UTF-8?Q?Robert_L=c3=b6hning?=) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:17:00 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87b9f09c-5e17-7503-fa4b-384fe4cb6a92@qt.io> Hi Andy, yes, non-Qt Company people have a voice. This discussion here is taking place in the Qt Project, not just the Qt Company. Cheers, Robert Am 22.02.2018 um 14:39 schrieb Andy: > If non-Qt Company people have a voice, I'm with Simon. More info is needed. > > Do you see this shipping as a built-in plugin for Qt Creator? > > If so, would this data collection be opt-in? > > How is the user informed about exactly what is being collected and how the > data is used? > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Simon Hausmann > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> >> Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend >> fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it >> accessible to the community? >> >> >> (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) >> >> >> Simon >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Development > qt.io at qt-project.org> on behalf of Tuukka Turunen >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM >> *To:* Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; >> development at qt-project.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for >> telemetry plugin in Qt Creator >> >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This >> item could be useful also for other applications. >> >> >> >> Yours, >> >> >> >> Tuukka >> >> >> >> *From: *Qt-creator >> on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo >> *Date: *Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 >> *To: *"qt-creator at qt-project.org" >> *Subject: *[Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt >> Creator >> >> >> >> Description: >> >> >> >> Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. >> >> Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. >> >> >> >> Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo >> >> >> >> Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> Tino Pyssysalo >> >> Senior Manager >> >> >> >> The Qt Company >> >> Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 >> >> 33100 Tampere, Finland >> >> tino.pyssysalo at qt.io >> >> +358 40 8615475 <+358%2040%208615475> >> >> http://qt.io >> >> >> >> The future is Written with Qt >> From apoenitz at t-online.de Thu Feb 22 20:05:42 2018 From: apoenitz at t-online.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_P=F6nitz?=) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 20:05:42 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:42:55PM +0300, Konstantin Tokarev wrote: > 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" : > > This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be > > completely honest I think it is 100% useless.  I fully subscribe to that. > > If you don't know what people > > are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with > > them.  You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to figure > > out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with.  Why not > > just take a few surveys a year? > > Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of > crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly. And trust me, I do. As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I *do* know about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the significant backlog of bug reports in JIRA, and by interacting with (sometimes referred to as "talking to") actual users. The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already be enough to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not including time spent in review processes etc. I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time on guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount of C minutes working on project named D" will translate into making my work more efficient nor in how to improve Qt Creator in general. In fact, I consider all of that irrelevant and detrimental and would strongly prefer to *not* get access to such information, and neither to anyone's interpretation what bug report this information may relate to. That makes a clear -1 from my side for technical reasons already. Neither legal nor ethical considerations are likely to improve that. Andre' (not speaking for any company etc etc) From sierdzio at gmail.com Thu Feb 22 21:01:59 2018 From: sierdzio at gmail.com (Tomasz Siekierda) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:01:59 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> Message-ID: Another point: if you do collect usage data, please bear in mind that sometimes a feature can be used very rarely, but still be vital. In other words, do not consider a feature as "unnecessary" or "can be deprecated" if it is not used often. For example, I mostly do mobile and desktop apps, but I still do want the remote linux deployment to work smoothly for rare occasions when I need to use it. On 22 February 2018 at 20:05, André Pönitz wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:42:55PM +0300, Konstantin Tokarev wrote: > > 22.02.2018, 16:39, "Ryein Goddard" : > > > This might be nice to make pretty charts to show to managers, but to be > > > completely honest I think it is 100% useless. > > I fully subscribe to that. > > > > If you don't know what people > > > are using your software for, or how then you aren't communicating with > > > them. You know once upon a time companies just talked with people to > figure > > > out what they wanted and what they were having difficulties with. Why > not > > > just take a few surveys a year? > > > > Well, there are things that are hard to report via survey, e.g. rate of > > crashes or memory leaking in clangbackend > > Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks > is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly. > And trust me, I do. > > As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I > *do* know > about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the significant backlog of > bug > reports in JIRA, and by interacting with (sometimes referred to as > "talking to") > actual users. > > The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already be > enough > to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not including time > spent in > review processes etc. > > I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time on > guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount of C > minutes > working on project named D" will translate into making my work more > efficient > nor in how to improve Qt Creator in general. In fact, I consider all of > that > irrelevant and detrimental and would strongly prefer to *not* get access > to such > information, and neither to anyone's interpretation what bug report this > information may relate to. > > That makes a clear -1 from my side for technical reasons already. > > Neither legal nor ethical considerations are likely to improve that. > > Andre' (not speaking for any company etc etc) > _______________________________________________ > Development mailing list > Development at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From apoenitz at t-online.de Thu Feb 22 21:42:59 2018 From: apoenitz at t-online.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_P=F6nitz?=) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:42:59 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: <20180222204259.GB1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 01:58:55PM +0000, Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > Hi, > > The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for > analytics. I see no reason why this can't be done as part of e.g. the commercial Qt offering, with customers being free to deploy that if they feel it helps their own offering (for whatever reasons that I luckily do not need to comprehend), nor do I see a reason why this should be used by the Qt Project's Qt Creator, especially when the people potentially acting on the results expressed severe dislike and doubts on the usefulness of such analytics for their work. For an Open Source solution there is e.g. KUserFeedback. I haven't used that myself, but judging from the description it appears to do what you claim to want to do, and judging from a quick look at the code and the name of the author I am ready to bet its implementation is sane. So I really have a hard time to see a gap here that needs to be filled. > The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide > that. > > We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to > collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the > plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, > we do not do that for our commercial tooling. > > Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user > in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the > answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is > started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of > collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be > a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any > used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino At some point you need to qualify what you mean when you use the word "we". Your current use of "we" clearly does not include myself, nor, if you allow me to extrapolate from the grapevine, the majority of the Qt Creator team. So, - who is "we"? - why is "us" (the Qt Creator team) not part of "we" when the topic is related to Qt Creator? - what data do you intent to collect exactly? - what mechanism do you plan to use to translate the collected data into what actions? Andre' From pasi.keranen at qt.io Fri Feb 23 08:05:38 2018 From: pasi.keranen at qt.io (=?utf-8?B?UGFzaSBLZXLDpG5lbg==?=) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:05:38 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <20180222204259.GB1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> <20180222204259.GB1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> Message-ID: <407AF18F-8EDB-482F-9530-A6629D25FB4B@qt.io> Hi there, +1 for having a generic telemetry plugin in Qt. This is great initiative and very much the way today's app and application industry works. UX studies performed by UX experts have been minimized and targeted for specific (usually new/experimental) features or upcoming new software (like we did with Qt 3D Studio back in last spring). And the mass information on "how do our users use the SW? do they find the stuff we've put in there? how often they hit a wall in doing sequence X? how many crashes do they experience when doing Y?" is collected via automated telemetry. It is great as it brings data from the actual user in their actual work and you can then use that to concentrate on functionality that really matters to your users. Making stuff they repeat hundred times a week easier and faster, making them more productive. I see definite need for this in Qt 3D Studio so please don’t make this just with Qt Creator in mind. Also, in my humble opinion, in order to be relevant in today's UI development, Qt should also offer this kind of a plug-in to our customers. A ready-to-go plug-in that automatically ensures the data is collected in a way that fulfills data privacy acts and respects the privacy of the user would be great. Especially for startups and smaller companies, but also for bigger companies wanting to switch to the modern way of doing UI development. It is not as easy to do as one might think at glance. I would ask anyone who has not done work with usability and user experience people in the past to give this way of working a chance. I've worked 7 years in application development while we grew usability knowledge in the team over that time. The first time I got to observe a real world user working with our software in actual real world situation was eye opening. We had gotten so many important things wrong in our idealistic thinking and forgotten to handle certain cases that occur on the field. Also you become blind to your own creations faults as you just know how the software works. It's just a fact of life. Regards, Pasi Keränen -- Senior Manager, 3D The Qt Company On 22/02/2018, 22.36, "Development on behalf of André Pönitz" wrote: On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 01:58:55PM +0000, Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > Hi, > > The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for > analytics. I see no reason why this can't be done as part of e.g. the commercial Qt offering, with customers being free to deploy that if they feel it helps their own offering (for whatever reasons that I luckily do not need to comprehend), nor do I see a reason why this should be used by the Qt Project's Qt Creator, especially when the people potentially acting on the results expressed severe dislike and doubts on the usefulness of such analytics for their work. For an Open Source solution there is e.g. KUserFeedback. I haven't used that myself, but judging from the description it appears to do what you claim to want to do, and judging from a quick look at the code and the name of the author I am ready to bet its implementation is sane. So I really have a hard time to see a gap here that needs to be filled. > The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide > that. > > We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to > collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the > plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, > we do not do that for our commercial tooling. > > Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user > in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the > answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is > started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of > collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be > a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any > used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino At some point you need to qualify what you mean when you use the word "we". Your current use of "we" clearly does not include myself, nor, if you allow me to extrapolate from the grapevine, the majority of the Qt Creator team. So, - who is "we"? - why is "us" (the Qt Creator team) not part of "we" when the topic is related to Qt Creator? - what data do you intent to collect exactly? - what mechanism do you plan to use to translate the collected data into what actions? Andre' _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development From Maurice.Kalinowski at qt.io Fri Feb 23 08:33:20 2018 From: Maurice.Kalinowski at qt.io (Maurice Kalinowski) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:33:20 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: “The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics” If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/ Maurice Von: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt.io at qt-project.org] Im Auftrag von Tino Pyssysalo Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen ; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pasi.keranen at qt.io Fri Feb 23 08:53:33 2018 From: pasi.keranen at qt.io (=?utf-8?B?UGFzaSBLZXLDpG5lbg==?=) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:53:33 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: Hi, Repos can be relocated to new homes if really needed, but I think it’s fair to say more generic location is definitely preferred from Qt 3D Studio point of view. To make this even easier I’d even start with a playground repo if nothing else can be found. Qt has always been (despite our vocal and sometimes a bit harsh dialogue) inclusive, so it should be fine to go and experiment with all things UI related. Just to see if something is worth the effort or not. Regards, Pasi From: Development on behalf of Maurice Kalinowski Date: Friday, 23 February 2018 at 9.33 To: Tino Pyssysalo , Simon Hausmann , Tuukka Turunen , "qt-creator at qt-project.org" , "development at qt-project.org" Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator “The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics” If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/ Maurice Von: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt.io at qt-project.org] Im Auftrag von Tino Pyssysalo Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen ; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Simon.Hausmann at qt.io Fri Feb 23 09:00:33 2018 From: Simon.Hausmann at qt.io (Simon Hausmann) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:00:33 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> , Message-ID: Hi, Given that no plan has been presented about how this is intended to work in terms of backend or API scope, I stand with my -1 for a qt/ or qt-creator/ repo. If there exists no plan yet but the desire to experiment, then I'm with Pasi here and would suggest a repository in the playground scope. I think either analytics or telemetry make sense to have in the name. Firebase for example uses the term analytics in their API and Mozilla uses the term telemetry for the service of collecting performance and usage info for Firefox. Simon ________________________________ From: Pasi Keränen Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:53:33 AM To: Maurice Kalinowski; Tino Pyssysalo; Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Repos can be relocated to new homes if really needed, but I think it’s fair to say more generic location is definitely preferred from Qt 3D Studio point of view. To make this even easier I’d even start with a playground repo if nothing else can be found. Qt has always been (despite our vocal and sometimes a bit harsh dialogue) inclusive, so it should be fine to go and experiment with all things UI related. Just to see if something is worth the effort or not. Regards, Pasi From: Development on behalf of Maurice Kalinowski Date: Friday, 23 February 2018 at 9.33 To: Tino Pyssysalo , Simon Hausmann , Tuukka Turunen , "qt-creator at qt-project.org" , "development at qt-project.org" Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator “The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics” If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/ Maurice Von: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt.io at qt-project.org] Im Auftrag von Tino Pyssysalo Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen ; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.hunger at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 09:08:40 2018 From: tobias.hunger at gmail.com (Tobias Hunger) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:08:40 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Pasi, On Feb 23, 2018 08:05, "Pasi Keränen" wrote: Hi there, +1 for having a generic telemetry plugin in Qt. I planned to stay out of this, but -1 since I am totally confused about the scope of this project at this point. So are we talking about a generic telemetry framework for Qt applications or about watching Qt Creator users specifically? Tino started by making the claim that this is a generic library and then kept listing Qt Creator specific integrations. You focus entirely onto the generic part, leaving out creator completely. What exactly are we talking about here? A Qt creator spyware plug-in (which does more than what we discuss here I hope:-) would be a matter of a couple of weeks to do, putting a generic framework into place with all the bits and pieces for that to be actually useful in a wide list of possible contexts is a very different beast. This is great initiative and very much the way today's app and application industry works. UX studies performed by UX experts have been minimized and targeted for specific (usually new/experimental) features or upcoming new software (like we did with Qt 3D Studio back in last spring). And the mass information on "how do our users use the SW? do they find the stuff we've put in there? how often they hit a wall in doing sequence X? how many crashes do they experience when doing Y?" is collected via automated telemetry. It is great as it brings data from the actual user in their actual work and you can then use that to concentrate on functionality that really matters to your users. Making stuff they repeat hundred times a week easier and faster, making them more productive. I see value in this approach when you can do lots of small releases fast. So you can do evaluate the effect of small changes by doing one change to evaluate per release and measure how that effects usage. We can not do more than two releases per year in Qt. Is this approach even applicable to us? I want to also point out that answering any of the questions you used as an example require *way* more information than I am even remotely comfortable to collect. I see definite need for this in Qt 3D Studio so please don’t make this just with Qt Creator in mind. Also, in my humble opinion, in order to be relevant in today's UI development, Qt should also offer this kind of a plug-in to our customers. A ready-to-go plug-in that automatically ensures the data is collected in a way that fulfills data privacy acts and respects the privacy of the user would be great. Especially for startups and smaller companies, but also for bigger companies wanting to switch to the modern way of doing UI development. It is not as easy to do as one might think at glance. I agree that having a general framework has value to some customers. Such a framework would need to be integrated into big solutions like Google analytics or something similar so the users can actually evaluate the collected data and cross-reference that to other data they collect. Just dumping data into some server somewhere does not help anybody. Will the server-side code be part of this project by the way? What about evaluation of the collected data? Is that in scope for this project, too? I would ask anyone who has not done work with usability and user experience people in the past to give this way of working a chance. I've worked 7 years in application development while we grew usability knowledge in the team over that time. The first time I got to observe a real world user working with our software in actual real world situation was eye opening. We had gotten so many important things wrong in our idealistic thinking and forgotten to handle certain cases that occur on the field. Also you become blind to your own creations faults as you just know how the software works. It's just a fact of life. Sure. We do way too little validation of what we do against the real world usage. Let us do some usability studies, let us talk to users, let us do surveys, let's evaluate all the data users provide to us on the mailing list, the bug tracker, the forums, stack overflow and in lots of other places. We do have a very active and supportive community of users and customers, let us use the feedback they provide already! Collecting some semi-random data from a self-selected group of users and dumping that onto a server somewhere is next to useless compared to all the other options we have already. Even in an ideal situation (which we do not have within Qt!), metrics are not comparable to a real user study where you actually watch users doing their thing. This is even more true when not leaving out any information that can be used to identify individual users from the collected data, which we obviously will do. Best Regards, Tobias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From volker.krause at kdab.com Fri Feb 23 10:20:23 2018 From: volker.krause at kdab.com (Volker Krause) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:20:23 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: <6309590.hPuPXUXxHT@vkpc19> Hi, as numerous people have asked me to comment on this by now, let me just do that here publicly (representing KDE's KUserFeedback, not KDAB): Tino is well aware of KUserFeedback, we discussed that last year already in detail. So it definitely was considered as a possible solution for this. I do not know why it was ultimately decided to implement a new framework, in particular if that's due to conceptual or technical reasons, or licensing. With the KDAB hat back on, we do use KUserFeedback in GammaRay since mid last year, and it has so far provided a few useful insights, in particular regarding to what extend we still need to support ancient Qt versions. But as with any data, it's not the ultimate answer to all questions, and you need to be very careful how to interpret it obviously. We have so far not received any negative feedback with e.g. privacy concerns, but the approach KUserFeedback takes there by default (and that we followed in GammaRay) is intentionally very restrained. Regards, Volker On Thursday, 22 February 2018 14:58:55 CET Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > Hi, > > The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for > analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not > provide that. > We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers > to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, > the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. > Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. > Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask > user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX > improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. > When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, > consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable > the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, > conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- > Tino > > > On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits > into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it > accessible to the community? > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > > Simon > > ________________________________ > From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, > February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry > plugin in Qt Creator > > > > Hi, > > > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item > could be useful also for other applications. > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > From: Qt-creator on > behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 > February 2018 at 13.04 > To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt > Creator > > > Description: > > > > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help > improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, > will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. > > > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > > > > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > > > > > --- > > Tino Pyssysalo > > Senior Manager > > > > The Qt Company > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > +358 40 8615475 > > http://qt.io > > > > The future is Written with Qt > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4664 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pasi.keranen at qt.io Fri Feb 23 10:33:03 2018 From: pasi.keranen at qt.io (=?utf-8?B?UGFzaSBLZXLDpG5lbg==?=) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 09:33:03 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <622C9E3B-DB34-4188-A189-3D14FFD19E1A@qt.io> Hi Tobias, I planned to stay out of this, but -1 since I am totally confused about the scope of this project at this point. So are we talking about a generic telemetry framework for Qt applications or about watching Qt Creator users specifically? Tino started by making the claim that this is a generic library and then kept listing Qt Creator specific integrations. You focus entirely onto the generic part, leaving out creator completely. What exactly are we talking about here? My understanding at this point is that this is meant to be a telemetry framework for Qt applications and first integration point that has been in discussions is Qt Creator. I intentionally left Qt Creator out as I don’t feel comfortable talking what they need/don’t need. So instead I concentrated on what I see Qt 3D Studio needs as I feel much more comfortable to talk about that based on our experiences, our engagements with customers and the usability and UI work we’ve done so far in Qt 3D Studio project. I’m always in favor of iterative development as you very very rarely understand the scope and needs at the beginning. So I understand the need to have a “reference integration to try out” even if we talk about aiming towards generic telemetry plugin. And it seems quite obvious from these discussions that we don’t yet know ourselves a lot about how to collect data, what type of data is to be collected and how to process it. We seem to be a bit divided in to individuals thinking this is inherently bad and morally dubious. And individuals (like myself) who see this as great idea to be able to get more data on how people use our tools. Not just from big customers and people who come to our events. But also from people out there in universities, small companies, startups, the people we rarely meet in person. Once we have understanding on what exactly are we after, then it would be good to move towards a generic Qt framework prototype. Maybe integrate against a known and trusted third party framework, add features to the API iteratively based on learnings and iterations. Then move on to publish this as tech preview and while we investigate integrating against another 3rd party framework so that we end up with a truly generic, Qt-like wrapper for specific functionality. A Qt creator spyware plug-in (which does more than what we discuss here I hope:-) would be a matter of a couple of weeks to do, putting a generic framework into place with all the bits and pieces for that to be actually useful in a wide list of possible contexts is a very different beast. I object to using “Spyware” term in this context. Spyware is SW that does things behind your back. Siphons contact information, user account info etc. without telling you. We’re NOT talking about such use cases here! I don’t think anyone in The Qt Company wants to do such things. From what I hear the intention is to track certain things in an open, transparent manner, respecting the communitys clear wish to keep things in the open and for the benefit of our end users. This is great initiative and very much the way today's app and application industry works. UX studies performed by UX experts have been minimized and targeted for specific (usually new/experimental) features or upcoming new software (like we did with Qt 3D Studio back in last spring). And the mass information on "how do our users use the SW? do they find the stuff we've put in there? how often they hit a wall in doing sequence X? how many crashes do they experience when doing Y?" is collected via automated telemetry. It is great as it brings data from the actual user in their actual work and you can then use that to concentrate on functionality that really matters to your users. Making stuff they repeat hundred times a week easier and faster, making them more productive. I see value in this approach when you can do lots of small releases fast. So you can do evaluate the effect of small changes by doing one change to evaluate per release and measure how that effects usage. We can not do more than two releases per year in Qt. Is this approach even applicable to us? Qt 3D Studio plans to do 4 releases per year, so for us this is definitely applicable. Qt Creator does also more than 2 releases a year so perhaps this could be useful for them as well, but as I said. I’m not comfortable talking on their behalf on this. I want to also point out that answering any of the questions you used as an example require *way* more information than I am even remotely comfortable to collect. This is where we definitely differ as individuals. I use software from Apple, Adobe etc. and I’m 100% fine giving them information on my usage statistics as it means the SW might get better over time for me. If e.g. Blender would some day ask me “are you ok for us to track your usage of the SW” I’d be 100% ok to do that as I see that it definitely could improve a lot from observing users. I see the poitive side of this type of usability and user data collection. So taking this in to account, perhaps our solution should somehow enforce possibility to opt-in/opt-out to accommodate for both you and me? I agree that having a general framework has value to some customers. Good to hear we’re in agreement on some level at least! :) Such a framework would need to be integrated into big solutions like Google analytics or something similar so the users can actually evaluate the collected data and cross-reference that to other data they collect. Just dumping data into some server somewhere does not help anybody. Will the server-side code be part of this project by the way? What about evaluation of the collected data? Is that in scope for this project, too? All these are good questions that I’d rather not try to answer in a meeting/email thread/chat thread, but rather prototype hands on iteratively. Just may way of approaching stuff and having experienced so many frustrating analysis paralysis moments and moments where theoretical discussions have proven something “absolutely impossible” only for competition then coming out with that exact feature a few moments later. Just try to do it and see how it goes, collect experience and modify your target setting based on that. Listen to customers, community and you shouldn’t go horribly wrong. Let us do some usability studies, let us talk to users, let us do surveys, let's evaluate all the data users provide to us on the mailing list, the bug tracker, the forums, stack overflow and in lots of other places. We do have a very active and supportive community of users and customers, let us use the feedback they provide already! Yup, we’ve done usability studies with Qt 3D Studio, we’ve done talking with SOME key customers and yes we’ve even fixed a lot of issues they’ve pointed out in Qt 3D Studio. I’m watching our bug tracker all the time, it’s part of the daily work. But let’s be honest.. we CAN’T talk to every user out there, only the biggest ones, only the ones that happen to participate our events. Qt 3D Studio is not talking to probably 95-97% of our users at the moment as we just can’t. Even this mailing list doesn’t cover all of our users. And crawling through all these email threads, no thanks, that is very very inefficient use of time in my opinion. This forum is great for discussing ideas, formulating, pointing out what needs to be considered (like in this case, it’s loud and clear that privacy and opt-in are of great importance to our community for atelemetry feature). Data collection would (when implemented correctly) automate the input collection and bring in data from all over the user base, that is why I see great value in it. Collecting some semi-random data from a self-selected group of users and dumping that onto a server somewhere is next to useless compared to all the other options we have already. Even in an ideal situation (which we do not have within Qt!), metrics are not comparable to a real user study where you actually watch users doing their thing. Perhaps first version will start with a set of data that might turn out to be ”semi random” and “not so useful for understanding users”. But I believe in learning, iterating and improvement. Next iteration we should improve and collect less random set of data that also then helps us in understanding our users better. And so on and so on. Yes I agree, metrics are ADDITIONAL tool. Not replacement for anything. Visiting users and talking with them does sometime open a whole new point of view in to what you are doing. Those can provide revolutionary ideas for you. That isn’t replaced with metrics. But metrics are great for iterative development, as you point out above. Honing and fine tuning the set of functionality you already have in your application. Regards, Pasi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.hunger at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 11:22:02 2018 From: tobias.hunger at gmail.com (Tobias Hunger) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:22:02 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <622C9E3B-DB34-4188-A189-3D14FFD19E1A@qt.io> References: <622C9E3B-DB34-4188-A189-3D14FFD19E1A@qt.io> Message-ID: Hi Pasi, On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:33 AM, Pasi Keränen wrote: > I object to using “Spyware” term in this context. Spyware is SW that does > things behind your back. I noticed that my mail could be read in the way you read it pretty much right after sending it. I need to apologize for expressing myself so poorly! What I meant to say that it is possible to write a spyware plugin (following pretty much exactly what you lay out below) for creator or any one Qt application that will collect basically everything about a user and to feed that into a database on the internet somewhere in a couple of weeks. On the other hand the task of writing a framework that does anonymized data collection that follows all the relevant data protection laws and standards and that pushes it to a server that is easy to manage and set up is an entirely different scope. I wanted to find out where our discussion is between these two poles. I did not intend to imply that what we are discussing here is spyware. > Siphons contact information, user account info etc. > without telling you. We’re NOT talking about such use cases here! I don’t > think anyone in The Qt Company wants to do such things. From what I hear the > intention is to track certain things in an open, transparent manner, > respecting the communitys clear wish to keep things in the open and for the > benefit of our end users. I am sorry for giving the impression that I thought anybody here is considering spyware. That was not my intention and I want to apologize to anybody that got that impression. Best Regards, Tobias From tuukka.turunen at qt.io Fri Feb 23 11:26:51 2018 From: tuukka.turunen at qt.io (Tuukka Turunen) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:26:51 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <6309590.hPuPXUXxHT@vkpc19> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> <6309590.hPuPXUXxHT@vkpc19> Message-ID: Hi, Use of KUserFeedback is problematic due to its license. Adding 3rd party L/GPL components is something I do not want to do (already wrote "we", but let's use "I" instead to avoid need to define what is meant by we :) The reason for avoiding adding any 3rd party components with viral licenses is coming from the commercial licensee needs. If KUserFeedback does what is needed from the discussed Qt add-on module, and the persons who wrote it are interested in contributing it to Qt, that could be one approach. That said, I have not looked into KUserFeedback myself beyond licensing. Yours, Tuukka On 23/02/2018, 11.22, "Development on behalf of Volker Krause" wrote: Hi, as numerous people have asked me to comment on this by now, let me just do that here publicly (representing KDE's KUserFeedback, not KDAB): Tino is well aware of KUserFeedback, we discussed that last year already in detail. So it definitely was considered as a possible solution for this. I do not know why it was ultimately decided to implement a new framework, in particular if that's due to conceptual or technical reasons, or licensing. With the KDAB hat back on, we do use KUserFeedback in GammaRay since mid last year, and it has so far provided a few useful insights, in particular regarding to what extend we still need to support ancient Qt versions. But as with any data, it's not the ultimate answer to all questions, and you need to be very careful how to interpret it obviously. We have so far not received any negative feedback with e.g. privacy concerns, but the approach KUserFeedback takes there by default (and that we followed in GammaRay) is intentionally very restrained. Regards, Volker On Thursday, 22 February 2018 14:58:55 CET Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > Hi, > > The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for > analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not > provide that. > We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers > to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, > the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. > Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. > Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask > user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX > improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. > When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, > consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable > the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, > conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- > Tino > > > On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits > into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it > accessible to the community? > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > > Simon > > ________________________________ > From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, > February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry > plugin in Qt Creator > > > > Hi, > > > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item > could be useful also for other applications. > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > From: Qt-creator on > behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 > February 2018 at 13.04 > To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt > Creator > > > Description: > > > > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help > improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, > will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. > > > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > > > > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > > > > > --- > > Tino Pyssysalo > > Senior Manager > > > > The Qt Company > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > +358 40 8615475 > > http://qt.io > > > > The future is Written with Qt > From Simon.Hausmann at qt.io Fri Feb 23 11:45:01 2018 From: Simon.Hausmann at qt.io (Simon Hausmann) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:45:01 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <6309590.hPuPXUXxHT@vkpc19> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io>, <6309590.hPuPXUXxHT@vkpc19> Message-ID: I just had a look at KUserFeedback and I'm impressed. Looks like a really good combination of very useful providers, UI, administration and server bits - all in one relatively small package. And for those not liking the PHP server part, it appears that that would be a piece that is relatively easy to replace - although the code looks very clean. Also very cool that you're using this in production for GammaRay. /That/ is something that would be awesome as part of the Qt project IMHO. Sensible scope, production tested and easy to use. (But I can totally understand that it might make more sense to remain in the KDE frameworks) Simon ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Volker Krause Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 10:20:23 AM To: development at qt-project.org; qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, as numerous people have asked me to comment on this by now, let me just do that here publicly (representing KDE's KUserFeedback, not KDAB): Tino is well aware of KUserFeedback, we discussed that last year already in detail. So it definitely was considered as a possible solution for this. I do not know why it was ultimately decided to implement a new framework, in particular if that's due to conceptual or technical reasons, or licensing. With the KDAB hat back on, we do use KUserFeedback in GammaRay since mid last year, and it has so far provided a few useful insights, in particular regarding to what extend we still need to support ancient Qt versions. But as with any data, it's not the ultimate answer to all questions, and you need to be very careful how to interpret it obviously. We have so far not received any negative feedback with e.g. privacy concerns, but the approach KUserFeedback takes there by default (and that we followed in GammaRay) is intentionally very restrained. Regards, Volker On Thursday, 22 February 2018 14:58:55 CET Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > Hi, > > The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for > analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not > provide that. > We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers > to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, > the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. > Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. > Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask > user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX > improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. > When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, > consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable > the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, > conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- > Tino > > > On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits > into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it > accessible to the community? > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > > Simon > > ________________________________ > From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen Sent: Thursday, > February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry > plugin in Qt Creator > > > > Hi, > > > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item > could be useful also for other applications. > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > From: Qt-creator on > behalf of Tino Pyssysalo Date: Thursday, 22 > February 2018 at 13.04 > To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt > Creator > > > Description: > > > > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help > improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, > will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. > > > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > > > > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > > > > > --- > > Tino Pyssysalo > > Senior Manager > > > > The Qt Company > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > +358 40 8615475 > > http://qt.io > > > > The future is Written with Qt > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward.welbourne at qt.io Fri Feb 23 11:54:56 2018 From: edward.welbourne at qt.io (Edward Welbourne) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:54:56 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru>, <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> Message-ID: André Pönitz (22 February 2018 20:05) > Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks > is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly. > And trust me, I do. I trust you. It is, however, possible your usage patterns of the UI are not typical; consequently, you'll prioritise the bugs you see most often; which might not be the bugs most often encountered by other users. Analytics may give you the data to know the pain points everyone else is as acutely aware of as you are of the pain points you meet most often. > As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I > *do* know about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the > significant backlog of bug reports in JIRA, and by interacting with > (sometimes referred to as "talking to") actual users. > > The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already > be enough to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not > including time spent in review processes etc. > > I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time > on guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount > of C minutes working on project named D" will translate into making my > work more efficient The proposed system provides anonymised and presumably aggregated data; so you won't be given, much less asked to evaluate, information about a specific user A doing things at a specific time B; your objection is a straw man. You'd be getting data on what proportion of users spend what proportions of their time doing which things. In particular, knowing which bugs bite most users most often might not be entirely useless when it comes to prioritising which bug to fix first. This won't enable you to write new features any faster or fix bugs any faster; but it may enable you to prioritise the things that are causing most pain to most users, and the things that would give the most win to the most users. *That* is what analytics is good for. The fact that it doesn't do a bunch of other things is beside the point, and no reason to reject it out of hand. Now, fortunately for you, most of the folk who use the product you work on are in fact software developers, so may well have similar habits to yours; so if the scope of this project is only Qt Creator, it may well be a waste of time; and, if it's intended to be a more general tool, this may also be a reason to *not* focus on Qt Creator as initial test-bed, as seems to be the present plan - that's apt to skew what we develop to be something that only works when the user-base thinks like the developers, which is not where (honest, open, ethical) analytics is at its best - where it reveals things to the developer that users see all the time, but the developer never encounters. Eddy. From volker.krause at kdab.com Fri Feb 23 11:57:59 2018 From: volker.krause at kdab.com (Volker Krause) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:57:59 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <6309590.hPuPXUXxHT@vkpc19> Message-ID: <6466384.2dccOQdpTL@vkpc19> On Friday, 23 February 2018 11:45:01 CET Simon Hausmann wrote: > I just had a look at KUserFeedback and I'm impressed. > > Looks like a really good combination of very useful providers, UI, > administration and server bits - all in one relatively small package. And > for those not liking the PHP server part, it appears that that would be a > piece that is relatively easy to replace - although the code looks very > clean. I don't like the PHP part either, it was just the easiest technology to deploy on the available servers at the time. The interface is very simple JSON/REST though, so it's indeed easy to explore alternatives. > Also very cool that you're using this in production for GammaRay. > > /That/ is something that would be awesome as part of the Qt project IMHO. > Sensible scope, production tested and easy to use. (But I can totally > understand that it might make more sense to remain in the KDE frameworks) Contribution of the entire KUserFeedback framework under the Qt CLA seems unlikely, but as indicated during previous discussions, a conversation about finding a more acceptable FOSS license to address the commercial user concerns is certainly possible. Regards, Volker > ________________________________ > From: Development > on behalf of Volker Krause Sent: Friday, February > 23, 2018 10:20:23 AM > To: development at qt-project.org; qt-creator at qt-project.org > Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry > plugin in Qt Creator > > Hi, > > as numerous people have asked me to comment on this by now, let me just do > that here publicly (representing KDE's KUserFeedback, not KDAB): > > Tino is well aware of KUserFeedback, we discussed that last year already in > detail. So it definitely was considered as a possible solution for this. > I do not know why it was ultimately decided to implement a new framework, in > particular if that's due to conceptual or technical reasons, or licensing. > > > With the KDAB hat back on, we do use KUserFeedback in GammaRay since mid > last year, and it has so far provided a few useful insights, in particular > regarding to what extend we still need to support ancient Qt versions. But > as with any data, it's not the ultimate answer to all questions, and you > need to be very careful how to interpret it obviously. We have so far not > received any negative feedback with e.g. privacy concerns, but the approach > KUserFeedback takes there by default (and that we followed in GammaRay) is > intentionally very restrained. > > Regards, > Volker > > On Thursday, 22 February 2018 14:58:55 CET Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use > > for > > analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not > > provide that. > > > > We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers > > to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, > > the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. > > Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. > > > > Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask > > user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX > > improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never > > installed. > > > > When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, > > > > consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable > > the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, > > conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. > > -- > > > Tino > > > > > > On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend > > fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is > > it accessible to the community? > > > > > > > > (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) > > > > > > > > Simon > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Development > > > > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > > Sent: Thursday, > > > February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM > > To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org > > Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for > > telemetry > > plugin in Qt Creator > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This > > item could be useful also for other applications. > > > > > > > > Yours, > > > > Tuukka > > > > From: Qt-creator > > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > > Date: Thursday, 22 > > > February 2018 at 13.04 > > To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt > > Creator > > > > > > > > Description: > > > > > > > > Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help > > improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. > > > > Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, > > will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. > > > > > > > > Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo > > > > > > > > Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Tino Pyssysalo > > > > Senior Manager > > > > > > > > The Qt Company > > > > Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 > > > > 33100 Tampere, Finland > > > > tino.pyssysalo at qt.io > > > > +358 40 8615475 > > > > http://qt.io > > > > > > > > The future is Written with Qt Volker Krause | volker.krause at kdab.com | Director Automotive KDAB (Deutschland) GmbH&Co KG, a KDAB Group company Tel. +49-30-521325470 KDAB - The Qt, C++ and OpenGL Experts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4664 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 12:47:17 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 06:47:17 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] valgrind command line? Message-ID: Is there a way to see the command line in Qt Creator when using valgrind/memcheck? I'm trying to debug a valgrind issue on macOS and it would be useful to see what Qt Creator is using. (It would be nice if that showed up in the Application Output tab.) Thanks! --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From orgads at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 12:53:36 2018 From: orgads at gmail.com (Orgad Shaneh) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:53:36 +0200 Subject: [Qt-creator] valgrind command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Done in 4.6 :) בתאריך 23 בפבר׳ 2018 13:47,‏ "Andy" כתב: > Is there a way to see the command line in Qt Creator when using > valgrind/memcheck? > > I'm trying to debug a valgrind issue on macOS and it would be useful to > see what Qt Creator is using. > > (It would be nice if that showed up in the Application Output tab.) > > Thanks! > > --- > Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com > twitter ~ @asmaloney > > > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asmaloney at gmail.com Fri Feb 23 13:03:24 2018 From: asmaloney at gmail.com (Andy) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 07:03:24 -0500 Subject: [Qt-creator] valgrind command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can see the future! Thank you. --- Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com twitter ~ @asmaloney On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 6:53 AM, Orgad Shaneh wrote: > Done in 4.6 :) > > בתאריך 23 בפבר׳ 2018 13:47,‏ "Andy" כתב: > >> Is there a way to see the command line in Qt Creator when using >> valgrind/memcheck? >> >> I'm trying to debug a valgrind issue on macOS and it would be useful to >> see what Qt Creator is using. >> >> (It would be nice if that showed up in the Application Output tab.) >> >> Thanks! >> >> --- >> Andy Maloney // https://asmaloney.com >> twitter ~ @asmaloney >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.treat at qt.io Fri Feb 23 13:28:35 2018 From: adam.treat at qt.io (Adam Treat) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:28:35 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> , , Message-ID: +1 to playground This is open source... by all means experiment! As long as no laws are being broken and no licenses violated, then if their is an itch... scratch it! The person who codes decides. We can all judge the results by looking at the code. Useless to have stop energy about a plug-in that does not yet exist. It could be great or it could be a lousy failure, but opening up a playgrounds repo costs no one anything. ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Simon Hausmann Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 3:00:33 AM To: Pasi Keränen; Tino Pyssysalo; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Given that no plan has been presented about how this is intended to work in terms of backend or API scope, I stand with my -1 for a qt/ or qt-creator/ repo. If there exists no plan yet but the desire to experiment, then I'm with Pasi here and would suggest a repository in the playground scope. I think either analytics or telemetry make sense to have in the name. Firebase for example uses the term analytics in their API and Mozilla uses the term telemetry for the service of collecting performance and usage info for Firefox. Simon ________________________________ From: Pasi Keränen Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:53:33 AM To: Maurice Kalinowski; Tino Pyssysalo; Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Repos can be relocated to new homes if really needed, but I think it’s fair to say more generic location is definitely preferred from Qt 3D Studio point of view. To make this even easier I’d even start with a playground repo if nothing else can be found. Qt has always been (despite our vocal and sometimes a bit harsh dialogue) inclusive, so it should be fine to go and experiment with all things UI related. Just to see if something is worth the effort or not. Regards, Pasi From: Development on behalf of Maurice Kalinowski Date: Friday, 23 February 2018 at 9.33 To: Tino Pyssysalo , Simon Hausmann , Tuukka Turunen , "qt-creator at qt-project.org" , "development at qt-project.org" Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator “The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics” If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/ Maurice Von: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt.io at qt-project.org] Im Auftrag von Tino Pyssysalo Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen ; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.loehning at qt.io Fri Feb 23 15:59:01 2018 From: robert.loehning at qt.io (=?UTF-8?Q?Robert_L=c3=b6hning?=) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:59:01 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> Message-ID: Am 23.02.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Edward Welbourne: > André Pönitz (22 February 2018 20:05) >> Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks >> is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly. >> And trust me, I do. > > I trust you. > It is, however, possible your usage patterns of the UI are not typical; > consequently, you'll prioritise the bugs you see most often; which might > not be the bugs most often encountered by other users. Analytics may > give you the data to know the pain points everyone else is as acutely > aware of as you are of the pain points you meet most often. > >> As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I >> *do* know about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the >> significant backlog of bug reports in JIRA, and by interacting with >> (sometimes referred to as "talking to") actual users. >> >> The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already >> be enough to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not >> including time spent in review processes etc. >> >> I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time >> on guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount >> of C minutes working on project named D" will translate into making my >> work more efficient > > The proposed system provides anonymised and presumably aggregated data; > so you won't be given, much less asked to evaluate, information about a > specific user A doing things at a specific time B; your objection is a > straw man. You'd be getting data on what proportion of users spend what > proportions of their time doing which things. In particular, knowing > which bugs bite most users most often might not be entirely useless when > it comes to prioritising which bug to fix first. If many users spend much time doing a "thing", does that mean that this is most important to them? Or that it is most fun to do? Or does it just mean that the design is so bad that they lose lots of time there and can't use it efficiently? > This won't enable you to write new features any faster or fix bugs any > faster; but it may enable you to prioritise the things that are causing > most pain to most users, and the things that would give the most win to > the most users. *That* is what analytics is good for. The fact that it > doesn't do a bunch of other things is beside the point, and no reason to > reject it out of hand. > > Now, fortunately for you, most of the folk who use the product you work > on are in fact software developers, so may well have similar habits to > yours; so if the scope of this project is only Qt Creator, it may well > be a waste of time; and, if it's intended to be a more general tool, > this may also be a reason to *not* focus on Qt Creator as initial > test-bed, as seems to be the present plan - that's apt to skew what we > develop to be something that only works when the user-base thinks like > the developers, which is not where (honest, open, ethical) analytics is > at its best - where it reveals things to the developer that users see > all the time, but the developer never encounters. > > Eddy. > _______________________________________________ > Development mailing list > Development at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > From tino.pyssysalo at qt.io Fri Feb 23 16:58:02 2018 From: tino.pyssysalo at qt.io (Tino Pyssysalo) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:58:02 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> Message-ID: <53044D9E-EE7F-4B44-A725-9DB0CE96188F@qt.io> I’ll clarify little bit, as my earlier comment about “any backend” has been confusing. I requested a repo for a QtCreator analytics plugin, but we realized why not to use a similar solution in other tools as well. I want to concentrate on a Qt Creator plugin first to fully understand the problem domain. Once that is done we can discuss how to move forward with this project”. Our intention is usage data collection, but nothing else at this point. Obviously, we plan to use the collected data to improve Qt. As a concrete example, we have provided a lot of nice features in Qt Quick Designer in the recent Qt Creator releases, but we have no idea, if the use of Qt Quick Designer has changed in any way. This kind of data would be very valuable to us. -- Tino On 23/02/2018, 14.28, "Adam Treat" > wrote: +1 to playground This is open source... by all means experiment! As long as no laws are being broken and no licenses violated, then if their is an itch... scratch it! The person who codes decides. We can all judge the results by looking at the code. Useless to have stop energy about a plug-in that does not yet exist. It could be great or it could be a lousy failure, but opening up a playgrounds repo costs no one anything. ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Simon Hausmann Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 3:00:33 AM To: Pasi Keränen; Tino Pyssysalo; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Given that no plan has been presented about how this is intended to work in terms of backend or API scope, I stand with my -1 for a qt/ or qt-creator/ repo. If there exists no plan yet but the desire to experiment, then I'm with Pasi here and would suggest a repository in the playground scope. I think either analytics or telemetry make sense to have in the name. Firebase for example uses the term analytics in their API and Mozilla uses the term telemetry for the service of collecting performance and usage info for Firefox. Simon ________________________________ From: Pasi Keränen Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:53:33 AM To: Maurice Kalinowski; Tino Pyssysalo; Simon Hausmann; Tuukka Turunen; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, Repos can be relocated to new homes if really needed, but I think it’s fair to say more generic location is definitely preferred from Qt 3D Studio point of view. To make this even easier I’d even start with a playground repo if nothing else can be found. Qt has always been (despite our vocal and sometimes a bit harsh dialogue) inclusive, so it should be fine to go and experiment with all things UI related. Just to see if something is worth the effort or not. Regards, Pasi From: Development on behalf of Maurice Kalinowski Date: Friday, 23 February 2018 at 9.33 To: Tino Pyssysalo , Simon Hausmann , Tuukka Turunen , "qt-creator at qt-project.org" , "development at qt-project.org" Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator “The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics” If that is the case, then qt-creator/telemetry is the wrong repository to ask for. If you are aiming at something generic, then it should be qt/ Maurice Von: Qt-creator [mailto:qt-creator-bounces+maurice.kalinowski=qt.io at qt-project.org] Im Auftrag von Tino Pyssysalo Gesendet: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:59 PM An: Simon Hausmann ; Tuukka Turunen ; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Betreff: Re: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, The idea is to develop a generic library/plugin, which anyone could use for analytics. The backend can be any storage and The Qt Company does not provide that. We plan to use the same backend, which we already use in online installers to collect statistics about installations. At least in case of Qt Creator, the plan is to make some analysis results available for the community. Obviously, we do not do that for our commercial tooling. Analytics is opt-in and disabled by default in Qt Creator. We plan to ask user in the installer, if the user wish to participate in Qt UX improvement. If the answers is no, the analytics plugin is never installed. When the creator is started for the first time, it will show a dialog, consisting a list of collected data items and an option to enable/disable the plugin. There will be a new output pane, which shows collected data, conversions methods, if any used, and transmitted data to the user. -- Tino On 22/02/2018, 15.26, "Simon Hausmann" > wrote: Hi, Can you provide a bit more information about how this plugin / frontend fits into the Qt project? Where is the collected data sent to and how is it accessible to the community? (-1 from me, as I think this needs to be clarified) Simon ________________________________ From: Development > on behalf of Tuukka Turunen > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:14:14 PM To: Tino Pyssysalo; qt-creator at qt-project.org; development at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Hi, +1 for creating the repo, but what about qt/qtanalytics as a name? This item could be useful also for other applications. Yours, Tuukka From: Qt-creator > on behalf of Tino Pyssysalo > Date: Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13.04 To: "qt-creator at qt-project.org" > Subject: [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Description: Telemetry plugin (frontend) to collect usage data from Qt Creator to help improving Qt, Qt features, and Qt tools. Non-personal data items, such as duration the user spent in design mode, will be collected in a way, which is completely transparent to the user. Responsible: Tino Pyssysalo Repository: qt-creator/plugin-telemetry --- Tino Pyssysalo Senior Manager The Qt Company Hämeenkatu 14 C 25 33100 Tampere, Finland tino.pyssysalo at qt.io +358 40 8615475 http://qt.io The future is Written with Qt --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.treat at qt.io Fri Feb 23 17:19:45 2018 From: adam.treat at qt.io (Adam Treat) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:19:45 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> , Message-ID: "If many users spend much time doing a "thing", does that mean that this is most important to them? Or that it is most fun to do?" Personally, I think we can table the discussion of how to interpret non-existent data for a plug-in that does not exist in a thread about whether to open a repo. ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Robert Löhning Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 9:59:01 AM To: Edward Welbourne; André Pönitz Cc: development at qt-project.org; qt-creator at qt-project.org; Ryein Goddard Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Am 23.02.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Edward Welbourne: > André Pönitz (22 February 2018 20:05) >> Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks >> is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly. >> And trust me, I do. > > I trust you. > It is, however, possible your usage patterns of the UI are not typical; > consequently, you'll prioritise the bugs you see most often; which might > not be the bugs most often encountered by other users. Analytics may > give you the data to know the pain points everyone else is as acutely > aware of as you are of the pain points you meet most often. > >> As someone who has been working on Qt Creator for more than a decade I >> *do* know about issues in the IDE by my own use of it, by the >> significant backlog of bug reports in JIRA, and by interacting with >> (sometimes referred to as "talking to") actual users. >> >> The currently 399 open issues assigned to me personally would already >> be enough to keep me busy for approximately a $WHILE, full time, not >> including time spent in review processes etc. >> >> I certainly do not need another input channel that makes me spent time >> on guessing how the information that "user A spent at time B an amount >> of C minutes working on project named D" will translate into making my >> work more efficient > > The proposed system provides anonymised and presumably aggregated data; > so you won't be given, much less asked to evaluate, information about a > specific user A doing things at a specific time B; your objection is a > straw man. You'd be getting data on what proportion of users spend what > proportions of their time doing which things. In particular, knowing > which bugs bite most users most often might not be entirely useless when > it comes to prioritising which bug to fix first. If many users spend much time doing a "thing", does that mean that this is most important to them? Or that it is most fun to do? Or does it just mean that the design is so bad that they lose lots of time there and can't use it efficiently? > This won't enable you to write new features any faster or fix bugs any > faster; but it may enable you to prioritise the things that are causing > most pain to most users, and the things that would give the most win to > the most users. *That* is what analytics is good for. The fact that it > doesn't do a bunch of other things is beside the point, and no reason to > reject it out of hand. > > Now, fortunately for you, most of the folk who use the product you work > on are in fact software developers, so may well have similar habits to > yours; so if the scope of this project is only Qt Creator, it may well > be a waste of time; and, if it's intended to be a more general tool, > this may also be a reason to *not* focus on Qt Creator as initial > test-bed, as seems to be the present plan - that's apt to skew what we > develop to be something that only works when the user-base thinks like > the developers, which is not where (honest, open, ethical) analytics is > at its best - where it reveals things to the developer that users see > all the time, but the developer never encounters. > > Eddy. > _______________________________________________ > Development mailing list > Development at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhihn at gmx.com Sat Feb 24 06:08:21 2018 From: jhihn at gmx.com (Jason H) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 06:08:21 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Why doesn't 4.5.1 cap set* properties properly Message-ID: the L of setLatitude should have been automatically capitalized. No? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2018-02-24 at 12.05.52 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 24181 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jhihn at gmx.com Sat Feb 24 16:49:28 2018 From: jhihn at gmx.com (Jason H) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:49:28 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Why doesn't 4.5.1 cap set* properties properly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It looks like it will apply caps after moving off the line? > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 12:08 AM > From: "Jason H" > To: qt-creator > Subject: [Qt-creator] Why doesn't 4.5.1 cap set* properties properly > > the L of setLatitude should have been automatically capitalized. No?_______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator > From timur.kristof at gmail.com Sat Feb 24 17:06:49 2018 From: timur.kristof at gmail.com (timur.kristof at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:06:49 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Font size in Qt Creator 4.5.1 in Wayland Message-ID: <1519488409.14925.2.camel@gmail.com> Hi, When I launch Qt Creator 4.5.1 in a Wayland session, it has a disturbingly enormous font size on its menus and GUI elements. This doesn't happen on Xorg, though. Is this a known issue or should I report a bug? Is there a workaround? Thanks & best regards, Timur From timur.kristof at gmail.com Sat Feb 24 17:19:56 2018 From: timur.kristof at gmail.com (timur.kristof at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 17:19:56 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Font size in Qt Creator 4.5.1 in Wayland In-Reply-To: <1830381519488878@web27g.yandex.ru> References: <1519488409.14925.2.camel@gmail.com> <1830381519488878@web27g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <1519489196.17309.2.camel@gmail.com> I don't have a high DPI display, so not sure if we have the same problem or not. I just realized two things: 1. The official Qt installer didn't install the Wayland platform plugin, so I think Creator must have been running under XWayland. 2. The issue is no longer present after logging out and then logging in to the Wayland session again. Cheers, Timur On Sat, 2018-02-24 at 18:14 +0200, Aleksey Kontsevich wrote: > For me in Xorg on big monitor I have very small fonts and GUI > elements. Known issue and it is not clear to me why Hi/LowDPI Qt > improvements work fine in all Qt/KDE applications but not in Qt > Creator and Qt Maintenance Tool? Think this issue could be fixed by > applying modern UI style like Qt Curve or Breeze, but Qt Creator does > not allow this for now: https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG- > 18631?focusedCommentId=390416&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.i > ssuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-390416 > > Reported issue: https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTCREATORBUG-18631 > Hope this will be fixed. Not comfortable to work with such very small > elements. > > -- > Best regards, > Aleksey > > > > 24.02.2018, 18:06, "timur.kristof at gmail.com" >: > > Hi, > > > > When I launch Qt Creator 4.5.1 in a Wayland session, it has a > > disturbingly enormous font size on its menus and GUI elements. This > > doesn't happen on Xorg, though. > > > > Is this a known issue or should I report a bug? > > Is there a workaround? > > > > Thanks & best regards, > > Timur > > _______________________________________________ > > Qt-creator mailing list > > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator From david.schulz at qt.io Mon Feb 26 06:48:59 2018 From: david.schulz at qt.io (David Schulz) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 06:48:59 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Why doesn't 4.5.1 cap set* properties properly In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, correct the capitalization is applied directly after you finish editing the snippet, either by pressing enter or escape. Greetings David On 24-Feb-18 16:49, Jason H wrote: > It looks like it will apply caps after moving off the line? > > >> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 12:08 AM >> From: "Jason H" >> To: qt-creator >> Subject: [Qt-creator] Why doesn't 4.5.1 cap set* properties properly >> >> the L of setLatitude should have been automatically capitalized. No?_______________________________________________ >> Qt-creator mailing list >> Qt-creator at qt-project.org >> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator >> > _______________________________________________ > Qt-creator mailing list > Qt-creator at qt-project.org > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator From tobias.hunger at gmail.com Mon Feb 26 10:18:56 2018 From: tobias.hunger at gmail.com (Tobias Hunger) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:18:56 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: <53044D9E-EE7F-4B44-A725-9DB0CE96188F@qt.io> References: <297808CB-E1C3-484B-B316-8232EF714033@qt.io> <53044D9E-EE7F-4B44-A725-9DB0CE96188F@qt.io> Message-ID: Hi Tino, On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Tino Pyssysalo wrote: > I’ll clarify little bit, as my earlier comment about “any backend” has been > confusing. I requested a repo for a QtCreator analytics plugin, but we > realized why not to use a similar solution in other tools as well. I want to > concentrate on a Qt Creator plugin first to fully understand the problem > domain. Once that is done we can discuss how to move forward with this > project”. Our intention is usage data collection, but nothing else at this > point. Obviously, we plan to use the collected data to improve Qt. As a > concrete example, we have provided a lot of nice features in Qt Quick > Designer in the recent Qt Creator releases, but we have no idea, if the use > of Qt Quick Designer has changed in any way. This kind of data would be very > valuable to us. So this is a simple creator plugin to collect data about Qt Creator users. That makes the scope clear to me, so I can step retract my -1 for undefined scope. A repository in the qt-creator namespace makes sense to me for that scope, but considering the experimental nature of this work, a playground project might work out better. I am not deep enough in the usual practices to have a firm opinion on that topic. Best Regards, Tobias From Eike.Ziller at qt.io Mon Feb 26 10:41:35 2018 From: Eike.Ziller at qt.io (Eike Ziller) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:41:35 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] Qt Creator 4.6 string freeze Message-ID: A bit delayed, but since it is now a few days more than 2 weeks after 4.6 beta, let us move Qt Creator 4.6 into string freeze today, Monday Feb 26, EOB. ++ Eike -- Eike Ziller Principal Software Engineer The Qt Company GmbH Rudower Chaussee 13 D-12489 Berlin eike.ziller at qt.io http://qt.io Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Mika Harjuaho Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B From annulen at yandex.ru Mon Feb 26 12:30:49 2018 From: annulen at yandex.ru (Konstantin Tokarev) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:30:49 +0300 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru>, <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> Message-ID: <74011519644649@web5o.yandex.ru> 23.02.2018, 13:55, "Edward Welbourne" : > André Pönitz (22 February 2018 20:05) >>  Any number for a "measured" value for rate of crashes or memory leaks >>  is uninteresting for me when I run into the problem myself reqularly. >>  And trust me, I do. > > I trust you. > It is, however, possible your usage patterns of the UI are not typical; > consequently, you'll prioritise the bugs you see most often; which might > not be the bugs most often encountered by other users. Analytics may > give you the data to know the pain points everyone else is as acutely > aware of as you are of the pain points you meet most often. Having statistics may also be valuable when you need to explain prioritization to managers. -- Regards, Konstantin From edward.welbourne at qt.io Mon Feb 26 18:06:08 2018 From: edward.welbourne at qt.io (Edward Welbourne) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:06:08 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> , Message-ID: Am 23.02.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Edward Welbourne: >> The proposed system provides anonymised and presumably aggregated >> data; so you won't be given, much less asked to evaluate, information >> about a specific user A doing things at a specific time B; your >> objection is a straw man. You'd be getting data on what proportion >> of users spend what proportions of their time doing which things. In >> particular, knowing which bugs bite most users most often might not >> be entirely useless when it comes to prioritising which bug to fix >> first. Robert Loehning (23 February 2018 15:59) > If many users spend much time doing a "thing", does that mean that > this is most important to them? Or that it is most fun to do? Or does > it just mean that the design is so bad that they lose lots of time > there and can't use it efficiently? You don't necessarily know - but you do at least know it sees a lot of use, as distinct from the things that no-one uses. That, in turn, might be because the thing doesn't work, or is too confusing; or it might mean it does a thing no-one feels any need to do. However, you have now separated two classes of feature from one another: you won't waste time asking users why they never use the heavily-used feature; and you won't assume that users know how to use the feature you know none of them use. You'll have more information along with just "what proportion use which features what proportions of the time"; some of this may help you to distinguish between the various possible explanations. When you look into the feature that no-one uses much, you may find that most users that do use it have a crash report following close on the heels of their use of it; you can make an educated guess at why they don't use it after that. For another feature, users may methodically work their way through the steps your tutoral for the feature outlined and never touch it again; it's probagly useless. You won't be throwing away your other ways of getting information from users; you can ask them, in all the usual ways, what they like best and what ticks them off about each feature. That's quite likely to distinguish, among the ones that are commonly used, the ones that are fun from the ones that are time-consuming pain points. Data on how your users use your product can contribute to your understanding of what questions to ask your users and what work to prioritise. Like all data, of course, you have to use it intelligently to get actionable information out of it; the possibility that you might misunderstand it doesn't mean it's worthless; it *supplements* the other sources of insight into how best to use your time, it doesn't replace them. All of which, of course, does depend on taking care that the process of collecting the data does not, in itself, cause greater harm than the benefits that you can glean from using the information, once collected, Eddy. From Marco.Bubke at qt.io Mon Feb 26 18:29:22 2018 From: Marco.Bubke at qt.io (Marco Bubke) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:29:22 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> , , Message-ID: Edward Welbourne: > When you look into the feature that no-one uses much, you may find that most users > that do use it have a crash report following close on the heels of their > use of it; you can make an educated guess at why they don't use it after that. We have already a crash reporter, which would provide us with that information. I am pushing this since some time but we need a server installation. Sorry, with my current experience I don't think that we need something much more complicated and fuzzy if we don't get something simple like a crash handler working. And I only speak about a customization of an already existing server and setting up the VM. I have that done very long ago but nobody stepped in to productise it. So I don't believe that we can fly to the stars if we cannot fly to the moon, but it is much easier to dream about the stars than to go to the moon. 😉 ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Edward Welbourne Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 6:06:08 PM To: Robert Loehning; André Pönitz Cc: development at qt-project.org; qt-creator at qt-project.org; Ryein Goddard Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Am 23.02.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Edward Welbourne: >> The proposed system provides anonymised and presumably aggregated >> data; so you won't be given, much less asked to evaluate, information >> about a specific user A doing things at a specific time B; your >> objection is a straw man. You'd be getting data on what proportion >> of users spend what proportions of their time doing which things. In >> particular, knowing which bugs bite most users most often might not >> be entirely useless when it comes to prioritising which bug to fix >> first. Robert Loehning (23 February 2018 15:59) > If many users spend much time doing a "thing", does that mean that > this is most important to them? Or that it is most fun to do? Or does > it just mean that the design is so bad that they lose lots of time > there and can't use it efficiently? You don't necessarily know - but you do at least know it sees a lot of use, as distinct from the things that no-one uses. That, in turn, might be because the thing doesn't work, or is too confusing; or it might mean it does a thing no-one feels any need to do. However, you have now separated two classes of feature from one another: you won't waste time asking users why they never use the heavily-used feature; and you won't assume that users know how to use the feature you know none of them use. You'll have more information along with just "what proportion use which features what proportions of the time"; some of this may help you to distinguish between the various possible explanations. When you look into the feature that no-one uses much, you may find that most users that do use it have a crash report following close on the heels of their use of it; you can make an educated guess at why they don't use it after that. For another feature, users may methodically work their way through the steps your tutoral for the feature outlined and never touch it again; it's probagly useless. You won't be throwing away your other ways of getting information from users; you can ask them, in all the usual ways, what they like best and what ticks them off about each feature. That's quite likely to distinguish, among the ones that are commonly used, the ones that are fun from the ones that are time-consuming pain points. Data on how your users use your product can contribute to your understanding of what questions to ask your users and what work to prioritise. Like all data, of course, you have to use it intelligently to get actionable information out of it; the possibility that you might misunderstand it doesn't mean it's worthless; it *supplements* the other sources of insight into how best to use your time, it doesn't replace them. All of which, of course, does depend on taking care that the process of collecting the data does not, in itself, cause greater harm than the benefits that you can glean from using the information, once collected, Eddy. _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Marco.Bubke at qt.io Tue Feb 27 13:12:35 2018 From: Marco.Bubke at qt.io (Marco Bubke) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:12:35 +0000 Subject: [Qt-creator] [Development] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator In-Reply-To: References: <94751519306975@web5o.yandex.ru> <20180222190542.GA1455@klara.mpi.htwm.de> , , , Message-ID: I was ask to provide more info about the crash dump server. It is called Socorro: https://github.com/mozilla-services/socorro Like you can see it was developed originally for Firefox: https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/topcrashers/?product=Firefox&version=58.0.2 There are many statistics about crashes and the stack trace which is very helpful for the developer to prioritize bug reports and fix crashes. We already have client support for that in Qt Creator but we need a server instance where we can send the crash dumps. ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Marco Bubke Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 6:29:22 PM To: Edward Welbourne; Robert Loehning; André Pönitz Cc: development at qt-project.org; Ryein Goddard; qt-creator at qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Edward Welbourne: > When you look into the feature that no-one uses much, you may find that most users > that do use it have a crash report following close on the heels of their > use of it; you can make an educated guess at why they don't use it after that. We have already a crash reporter, which would provide us with that information. I am pushing this since some time but we need a server installation. Sorry, with my current experience I don't think that we need something much more complicated and fuzzy if we don't get something simple like a crash handler working. And I only speak about a customization of an already existing server and setting up the VM. I have that done very long ago but nobody stepped in to productise it. So I don't believe that we can fly to the stars if we cannot fly to the moon, but it is much easier to dream about the stars than to go to the moon. 😉 ________________________________ From: Development on behalf of Edward Welbourne Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 6:06:08 PM To: Robert Loehning; André Pönitz Cc: development at qt-project.org; qt-creator at qt-project.org; Ryein Goddard Subject: Re: [Development] [Qt-creator] Requesting repository for telemetry plugin in Qt Creator Am 23.02.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Edward Welbourne: >> The proposed system provides anonymised and presumably aggregated >> data; so you won't be given, much less asked to evaluate, information >> about a specific user A doing things at a specific time B; your >> objection is a straw man. You'd be getting data on what proportion >> of users spend what proportions of their time doing which things. In >> particular, knowing which bugs bite most users most often might not >> be entirely useless when it comes to prioritising which bug to fix >> first. Robert Loehning (23 February 2018 15:59) > If many users spend much time doing a "thing", does that mean that > this is most important to them? Or that it is most fun to do? Or does > it just mean that the design is so bad that they lose lots of time > there and can't use it efficiently? You don't necessarily know - but you do at least know it sees a lot of use, as distinct from the things that no-one uses. That, in turn, might be because the thing doesn't work, or is too confusing; or it might mean it does a thing no-one feels any need to do. However, you have now separated two classes of feature from one another: you won't waste time asking users why they never use the heavily-used feature; and you won't assume that users know how to use the feature you know none of them use. You'll have more information along with just "what proportion use which features what proportions of the time"; some of this may help you to distinguish between the various possible explanations. When you look into the feature that no-one uses much, you may find that most users that do use it have a crash report following close on the heels of their use of it; you can make an educated guess at why they don't use it after that. For another feature, users may methodically work their way through the steps your tutoral for the feature outlined and never touch it again; it's probagly useless. You won't be throwing away your other ways of getting information from users; you can ask them, in all the usual ways, what they like best and what ticks them off about each feature. That's quite likely to distinguish, among the ones that are commonly used, the ones that are fun from the ones that are time-consuming pain points. Data on how your users use your product can contribute to your understanding of what questions to ask your users and what work to prioritise. Like all data, of course, you have to use it intelligently to get actionable information out of it; the possibility that you might misunderstand it doesn't mean it's worthless; it *supplements* the other sources of insight into how best to use your time, it doesn't replace them. All of which, of course, does depend on taking care that the process of collecting the data does not, in itself, cause greater harm than the benefits that you can glean from using the information, once collected, Eddy. _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development at qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fromqt at tungware.se Wed Feb 28 23:29:54 2018 From: fromqt at tungware.se (Henry Skoglund) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 23:29:54 +0100 Subject: [Qt-creator] Using Qt Creator for legacy ObjectiveC++ project Message-ID: Hi, reading some recent posts about reusing Qt Creator for other project flavors than Qt/C++, on a lark I decided to try it on my 6 year old ObjectiveC++ LOB app (about 20K SLOC) and it's working great. I inserted a .pro file with some HEADERS += and SOURCES += in the directory, doubleclicked on it and voila, I can use Qt Creator to edit those old .mm files (I need to rescale the UI for iPhone X and stuff like that). It's a relief not having to work in Xcode, the current version 9.2 sometimes feels like waiting for Deep Thought to answer. A few things in case someone else endeavors to do the same: to get IntelliSense to work with all the NSxxx types (which is great, then Qt Creator can auto-expand [myString stringByAppendingString:myOtherString] and other similar API calls for you) you need to get #includes like these up and running: #import #import #import because Qt Creator will complain: "not found". I think Xcode does some tweaking with the include paths into /Applications/Xcode to get those #includes to work, here's what I did: inserted this in the pro file: INCLUDEPATH = /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneOS.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks # (you gotta love Apple for those "simple" directory trees) and created these symbolic links inside the XCode.app: cd /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platform/iPhoneOS.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneOS.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks sudo ln -s CoreData.framework/Headers CoreData sudo ln -s Foundation.framework/Headers Foundation sudo ln -s MessageUI.framework/Headers MessageUI sudo ln -s UIKit.framework/Headers UIKit sudo ln -s UserNotificaitons.framework/Headers UserNotifications Those will probably vanish when Xcode 9.3 or 10.0 arrives, but they're easy to reapply. The code model still complains about some minor things in XCode's files, currently I have these 2: "expecting a type" for NSComparator in NSArray.h in line 74: - (NSArray *)sortedArrayUsingComparator:(NSComparator NS_NOESCAPE)cmptr API_AVAILABLE(macos(10.6), ios(4.0), watchos(2.0), tvos(9.0)); "nullability specifier _Nullable" cannot be applied to non-pointer type 'uuid_t' (aka 'unsigned char [16]') in NSUUID.h line 26: - (instancetype)initWithUUIDBytes:(const uuid_t _Nullable)bytes; but I can click that green "Minimize" button in the top right corner to hide those errors and carry on working anyway. Finally, got one question: who's Uncle Bob? (he's listed as one of the Code Model's configurations :-) Rgrds Henry