[Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct

Thu Oct 25 15:03:10 CEST 2018

I guess NIkolai point was not about the trust and some personal details.
I guess everyone could agree that conflicts are possible.

The question was is proposed CoC helping to solve them, or is it making
things worse? Are there any objective metrics?

P.S.: as I said, I personally not against any CoC/guidelines by default,
but have problems with proposed implementation and want to help

чт, 25 окт. 2018 г. в 15:30, Tor Arne Vestbø <Tor.arne.Vestbo at qt.io>:

>
> > On 25 Oct 2018, at 14:21, NIkolai Marchenko <enmarantispam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Multiple people have alrady asked for examples of what the code is
> trying to solve.
> > If you have those, we'd like to hear about these exact cases.
>
> Mitch’s email describes this in a good way. I’m obviously not going to go
> into details about concrete cases. If the project/community can’t trust
> that these are real concerns coming from long standing contributors,
> without airing dirty laundry in the process, then we’re worse off than I
> thought.
>
> Tor Arne
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 2:32 PM Tor Arne Vestbø <Tor.arne.Vestbo at qt.io>
> wrote:
> > I 100% stand behind Mitch’s summary below. This is a real problem in
> this project that not only makes it a less than great place to work, but is
> also indirectly affecting the quality of the code, for those that care only
> about that part.
> >
> > Tor Arne
> >
> > > On 25 Oct 2018, at 13:22, Mitch Curtis <mitch.curtis at qt.io> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's a bit of a loaded question. First you call asocial behaviour a
> "quirk", as if someone who treats other people like crap is "quirky" - I
> prefer your phrase "rude arse". Should a code of conduct aim to stop
> "quirky" behaviour amongst contributors? No, of course not. That's what
> makes people interesting. A code of conduct should draw the line between
> quirky behaviour and "rude arse" behaviour.
> > >
> > > To answer your question: in my experience, nothing happens. They
> continue being a rude arse because:
> > >
> > > 1) That is who they are and they aren't interested in changing.
> > > 2) People have already decided that this person's technical
> contributions are worth enough that they can step on anyone, regardless of
> the fact that it's supposed to be a professional setting.
> > > 3) They're "actually a nice person in real life"... as if this excuses
> it. So if I write "You're a dumbarse" on a piece of paper and send it
> through the post, but a week later invite you over to my house for a
> home-cooked meal, it's OK? Are we really encouraging keyboard warriors?
> > >
> > > Rafael said:
> > >
> > > "During all these years contributing to Qt I have encountered many
> times strong criticism in gerrit - some people were very harsh or
> *seemingly* rude - or that was what I thought, until I realized that: 1) it
> was just their modus operandi; 2) at the end of the day, their comments
> made sense and improved my code; 3) they were not butt hurt when roles were
> reversed."
> > >
> > > To me it seems like you guys are saying:
> > >
> > > "I don't care if this person treats me like crap because they sure can
> code."
> > >
> > > I'm happy for you if you've gotten this far in life and decided that
> you like being insulted in exchange for someone reviewing your code (or
> even just asking a question on IRC), but personally I do not like it. I'm
> more than capable of standing up for myself, but other people who feel the
> same way may not feel comfortable speaking out.
> > >
> > > What you're also saying is:
> > >
> > > "You (the Qt Project) aren't going to do anything about their
> behaviour because they contribute good code."
> > >
> > > Which sadly is true. Really, your question seems almost rhetorical
> given this. It's even explicitly acknowledged on the home page of the thing
> that we're basing our code of conduct on:
> > >
> > > "People with “merit” are often excused for their bad behavior in
> public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions."
> > >
> > > - https://www.contributor-covenant.org/
> > >
> > > Disregarding all of the other factors (racism, sexual identity, age,
> etc.) and just keeping it purely about treating other people with respect:
> the statement above is absolutely true.
> > >
> > > Honestly I have my doubts whether this code of conduct will actually
> achieve its most basic goal, given that many people have apparently tried
> to intervene with the people who treat others poorly and nothing has come
> of it (although people will tell you it's gotten better). I hope it does,
> but I've been in the community and around these people long enough to know
> that it probably won't. Reading through these replies, it's also clear that
> a large amount of the people responding are quite happy with the status
> quo, which, although not surprising to me, is always disheartening.
> > >
> > > I haven't seen any racism, discrimination, etc., but there are
> definitely people within the community whose behaviour is such that other
> developers will avoid interacting with them, even if it would have likely
> improved the quality of their work or got that work done faster. I doubt
> you'll hear from those people though, because they just want to get their
> job done -- which is perfectly understandable, but does not excuse the
> behaviour of the people they try to avoid.
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 1:06 PM Konstantin Tokarev <annulen at yandex.ru
> > >> <mailto:annulen at yandex.ru> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>      25.10.2018, 13:01, "NIkolai Marchenko" <enmarantispam at gmail.com
> > >> <mailto:enmarantispam at gmail.com> >:
> > >>      >> And btw, we have had a clear majority in favour of adding a
> CoC at
> > >> the Contributor Summit
> > >>      >
> > >>      > It seems very wrong to make such decisions at conventions where
> > >> only a small part of the contributors can participate.
> > >>      > Especially for something as big and divisive
> > >>
> > >>      +1
> > >>
> > >>      --
> > >>      Regards,
> > >>      Konstantin
> > >>
> > >
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> >
>
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