[Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct

[Alexey Andreyev]

Want to add that CoC implementation matters.
It's hard to accept and change or revert some rules than.

The controversial discrimination protection sentences at least should be
carefully discussed. It's not some thing that we could accept as easy as
rewrite.

сб, 27 окт. 2018 г., 18:51 Martin Smith <Martin.Smith at qt.io>:

> Having observed this discussion since the beginning...
>
> Apparently there are cases where contributors are being abused by other
> contributors. Currently, there is no formal procedure for resolving these
> cases of alleged abuse.
>
> Those objecting to establishing a CoC the purpose of which will be to
> establish that formal procedure to resolve cases of alleged dispute, are
> objecting because the CoC might abuse someone accused of abuse.
>
> Those objecting claim we are all able to resolve these abuse problems
> without a code of conduct, but those of us empowered, under a CoC, to
> resolve cases of abuse, would suddenly lose their ability to resolve abuse
> problems and would instead use the CoC to abuse alleged abusers.
>
> That's what it looks like to me.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Alexey Andreyev <yetanotherandreyev at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 5:21:10 PM
> To: Martin Smith
> Cc: NIkolai “Zeks” Marchenko; Qt development mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct
>
> I agree not interacting is probably not a solution and your contribution
> without other details is not an excuse.
>
> But I think existing CoC have problems.
> There are statements everywhere about discrimination protection for
> example which are very controversial.
>
> The problem with that in other communities was already mentioned.
> I disagree it's not a big deal and have more benefits than negative aspect.
> We provided a lot of problematic real-life examples, since it's still hard
> to prove positive impact.
>
> I guess we should try to develop better version, I don't see real-life
> benefits from existing CoC at other communities.
>
>
> сб, 27 окт. 2018 г., 17:53 Martin Smith <Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:
> Martin.Smith at qt.io>>:
> >I am yet to hear an answer about what is going to be done in case the
> person
> >mistreating is an active contributor.
> >Will you chose potential harm, over actual benefit of having such a
> person on the
> >project?
>
> Active contributors who abuse others should be treated the same as
> inactive contributors who abuse others. What would be done would of course
> depend on what the abuser did. I suppose the abuser (active contributor or
> not) would be informed as to what he/she did wrong and would be told to
> stop doing it.
>
> Your remarks seem to mean you would rather ignore harm to get the benefit.
> I hope that's not what you mean. Being a super contributor doesn't buy one
> the privilege of being an asshole to others.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: NIkolai Marchenko <enmarantispam at gmail.com<mailto:
> enmarantispam at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 4:03:41 PM
> To: Martin Smith
> Cc: Konstantin Shegunov; Qt development mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct
>
> I am yet to hear an answer about what is going to be done in case the
> person mistreating is an active contributor.
> Will you chose potential harm, over actual benefit of having such a person
> on the project?
>
> The edge case being, for example, if a module maintainer is mistreating
> someone for whatever reason.
> The other person can just stop trying to interact with that maintainer,
> but I fail to see how removing a maintainer over a potential benefit of
> someone not being mistreated actually benefits the project.
>
> I've heard from people in this thread that it _is_ a problem you are
> trying to sovle and there _have _ been mistreatment.
> Now, I am not asking for dirty laundry, but isn't community supposed to
> know at least in broad strokes, the kind of problems yo uare even tring to
> solve before actually voting on anything?
> Maybe the community have a better answer for these specific problems?
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 4:56 PM Martin Smith <Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:
> Martin.Smith at qt.io><mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io>>>
> wrote:
>
> >1) To contact the contributor first and try to resolve the issue civilly.
> >2) To seek help with a third party (another contributor) who is known to
> the
> >alleged victim and who can act as mediator to try an resolve it.
> >3) If 1) and 2) don't work he/she may also bring it to the attention of
> the
> >community (e.g. the mailing list). The community is then free to react or
> not to
> >react.
>
> You just specified a code of conduct. The problem with your code of
> conduct is that it isn't guaranteed to end in resolution.
>
> >The implication that currently, if you're feeling mistreated, it's
> impossible to act
> >(respectfully) against harassment seems rather far-fetched to me.
>
> But that isn't the implication. The implication is that a mistreated
> person can take the actions you have specified, and the result can be that
> the mistreatment, real or not, is not resolved.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Konstantin Shegunov <kshegunov at gmail.com<mailto:kshegunov at gmail.com
> ><mailto:kshegunov at gmail.com<mailto:kshegunov at gmail.com>>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 3:48:49 PM
> To: Martin Smith
> Cc: development at qt-project.org<mailto:development at qt-project.org><mailto:
> development at qt-project.org<mailto:development at qt-project.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 4:09 PM Martin Smith <Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:
> Martin.Smith at qt.io><mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io
> >><mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io><mailto:
> Martin.Smith at qt.io<mailto:Martin.Smith at qt.io>>>> wrote:
> In that case, if a contributor is mistreated by another contributor, what
> recourse does the victim have?
>
> 1) To contact the contributor first and try to resolve the issue civilly.
> 2) To seek help with a third party (another contributor) who is known to
> the alleged victim and who can act as mediator to try an resolve it.
> 3) If 1) and 2) don't work he/she may also bring it to the attention of
> the community (e.g. the mailing list). The community is then free to react
> or not to react.
>
> The implication that currently, if you're feeling mistreated, it's
> impossible to act (respectfully) against harassment seems rather
> far-fetched to me.
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