[Interest] Is Nokia officially done with Qt?

[d3fault]

Lars, since you're here; I don't want to put you on the spot but am going
to anyways. I predict a Microsoft buyout before the complete closure of the
Qt/Linux teams (or are they already closed? what is that Eero Penttinen
talking about?) or even the selling off of Qt to somebody else (MS won't
"allow" that imo).

So my question is:
*Lars Knoll*
If Microsoft purchases Nokia, will you use your voting power to invoke the
BSD Clause?

To make this easier for you... if the answer is yes, don't respond. This
way you don't jeapordize your job at Nokia. If it's a no, do respond (and
why plz explain lol because I'd be pretty confused).

We all know you're going to see the question... and heck, I just decided
I'm going to move this to the top of my email (it wasn't up here at
first)... but responding "yes" might anger some of the execs etc, so I'm
trying to help you keep your jerb (even if only for a little while longer).


On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Pau Garcia i Quiles
<pgquiles at elpauer.org>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Actually, the KDE Free Qt Foundation agreement is not that good. It
> only covers X11. All the other important platforms are out: Windows,
> Mac, Android, iPhone, Symbian, QNX, VxWorks, etc. Probably Wayland
> would also be out (unless you find a very convincing way to show
> Wayland is the successor to X11).
>

I've done some more thinking about this (and feel quite dumb for not
realizing it right away). Since the agreement was written, Qt[he, ok i'll
stop... for now]  has moved to QPA... so there's not even such thing as
"Windows Qt" or "X11 Qt" any longer. There's QtBase and then the X11
plugin. If my understanding is correct, the BSD Clause getting triggered
now essentially affects Windows + Everything. The reason being is that it's
[relatively] cheap to re-write and re-license (BSD this time) the Platform
plugins (especially since there are so many knowledgeable people on the
subjects around these parts).

The only thing that remains for a full bsd LIFE PILL to cover the Qt
Project as a whole (we don't need Creator/Assistant etc in BSD because
businesses aren't likely to distribute those with their products)... are
the rest of the modules. Pau Garcia, you seem to know your stuff, any
thoughts?

From: http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/images/nokia-agreement-3.jpg
"In the event Nokia in any release of Qt moves any classes, *components* or
functionality previously released with Qt to another library or software
package, or replaces any such classes, methods, *components* or
functionality [...] *blah blah blah the stuff removed is still considered a
part of Qt within the context of this agreement*". Emphasis added [bold]
and italics paraphrased.

Are all of the modules, QtSql, QtSsl, QtNetwork, etc etc... "components" of
Qt?

If so, I would like to retract my retractment and reinstate that the BSD
Clause is actually kinda cool.

THANKS BROSKIES! I'm guessing you're the H and the E guys? Or maybe the 2
KDE members (they're the ones who would initiate discussion of creating
such an agreement I'd imagine)? Actually, I guess we should thank the guys
that did the Android-Lighthouse initial work that sparked the QPA refactor.
Wewt.


Sorry, we're still here. We'll still be working on Qt. We all (most anyway)
> still have approver status, regardless of our employer. I can't believe
> anyone is seriously talking about forking Qt. But this is open source, and
> you are free to do that. All I have to say is... good luck.
>

Sorry? Why would you say sorry? I think it's great that your interest in Qt
comes home with you. I just don't understand why you'd want to show loyalty
to the poeple who gave you the boot. I was hoping/under-the-impression that
the Nokia devs would rage and also want to fork. I mean why WOULDN'T you,
if the entire division was severed? I think more likely, Microsoft will buy
Nokia sometime within the next year.

Oh and another thing, I'd imagine everyone would keep their same
meritocratic status in a fork. It would be disastrous if they didn't.

Let's wait for a proper official statement from Nokia about the future of
> Qt.
>

"official statement"
"politics"
"the art of saying nothing"

This is 'official' enough if you ask me:
https://twitter.com/eeropenttinen/status/213685194853593089

> Unfortunately best teams in Nokia were not given a chance to accomplish
> something amazing. Qt & Linux are dead in Nokia :(
>

Given his job title etc, it sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

That and Nokia/MS will never EVER "officially" kill Qt... to prevent BSD
Clause from taking effect (12 month without releases doesn't matter though,
so long as Lars Knoll _OR_ Matthias Ettrich motions to trigger BSD Clause).

Anyone who suggests forking seriously underestimates the resources
> required to run a project like Qt.


You're right, it is a lot of resources......


> There is no point to a fork, it's
> just splitting resources.  Whatever happens needs to be as a single
> project under Open Governance.
>

Precisely. I couldn't agree more. Forking would put Qt in a vulnerable
state (some devs will just leave), which is why it needs to be organized by
the people in the project with meritocratic status and take place as
swiftly and smoothly as possible. Do you think it's smarter to be a
Microsoft product?

The resources for a fork are already here (right? we're here right now in
this very moment are we not?), it's just a matter of making sure the
resources stick together and everyone jumps ship at the same time.

Let's wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks..
>

Yea, I'm so excited to read the executives' non-technical PR statements
they release. That'll totally clear up all the confusion... it definitely
won't add any MORE. And they'd never do that intentionally either, right?




I don't understand all the crying. Yes, I made a 'they live in a trash can
now' joke... but I also sympathized with them a sentence later. All
software/politics/business aside, this is tragic for the developers being
let go. I wish them the best of luck in finding more work and hope that
they are still able to (time constraints, etc) contribute, if that's what
they love doing.

That being said, I still want Nokia to burn. Because it already is. Anybody
could tell you that Nokia's about to go out of business. I just wish
someone  would put a bullet in the back of it's head and end it swiftly and
quickly. All this politics crap means we get to watch a parade of PR
statements etc followed by the innevitable buyout and meh, it's all just a
waste of time. If they just up and said "ok we are no longer going to
support or do work on Qt" (which is the same long term effect as Microsoft
buying Nokia), then we could stop wondering what to do and literally
everyone would agree on the fork and we'd just do it... now.

d3fault
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