[Development] Crazy Idea

Sat Oct 22 19:11:25 CEST 2011

Hi,

Have you ever used Wt?

It does everything you say it's difficult.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Dhaivat Pandya <dhaivatpandya at gmail.com>wrote:

> Here's my stance on that.
> If it is possible to keep the ability to write Javascript for custom UI
> widgets (or, C++ that generates a custom Javascript widget), I am for this.
> If not, it would very difficult to produce web apps that have some special
> "pizazz".
>
> Web development interfaces are quite different from desktop interfaces
> because
>
>    - There are a ton of different browsers, mobile, web, etc.
>    - All kinds of technologies one has to fix up
>
> Also, if that is done, all the existing code for Javascript (such as jQuery
> and the likes) cannot be used, unless the cross compiled C++ can work with
> existing Javascript. If that is possible (as I mentioned), I'm totally in
> for this idea, but, IMO, that is a difficult thing to accomplish.
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles <
> pgquiles at elpauer.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Dhaivat Pandya <dhaivatpandya at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, so, people do want this to happen. So, the first things we should
>>> decide would be what features/ideas one would need. I say:
>>>
>>> Now, IMHO, if we do make it a QPA by just changing the backend, that
>>> would be exactly like Wt.
>>>
>>
>> Which is exactly what I'd like to see.
>>
>> I'm not asking for a web framework/library based on Qt, but for a new
>> target for Qt: instead of compiling for Windows, Linux, Symbian or MeeGo, I
>> would choose "cross-compile for web". The end result would be a FastCGI
>> module, or a single executable which embeds its own web server (exactly like
>> in Qt).
>>
>> Emweb has put a lot of thought into Wt, really.
>>
>>
>> Also, even though desktop apps have been written like this for a very long
>>> time, webapps (again, IMHO) are better arranged as MVC.
>>>
>>> 1) Templates
>>> 2) MVC properly done
>>> 3) Some type of scaffolding script
>>> 4) The core needs to be extremely fast and async
>>> 5) Database requests are shifted off to another thread, etc. This is not
>>> possible (well, it is, but, not very useful) in languages such as Python,
>>> PHP, Ruby since they all use green threading, which works, but, isn't quite
>>> as fast.
>>> 6) Crash support, if something crashes, don't give a crazy error to the
>>> user, figure out where it crashed, write to logs, and the web developer uses
>>> an error page. Figuring out where it crashed is mostly where the work is
>>> done.
>>> 7) Qt libraries are used as much as possible
>>> 8) (this one needs community support to happen) Relation to scripting
>>> languages, such as Javascript, Lua, etc.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>> I think there have been several projects trying that:
>>
>> Creole ( http://blogs.kde.org/node/3707 )
>> QtWui ( http://qtwui.sourceforge.net/ )
>> ...
>>
>> I want write once, compile everywhere. Even if that means having three
>> "different" UIs (desktop, mobile, web), it would be a wonderful feature. See
>> Gtk+ HTML5 backend.
>>
>>
>>
>>  2011/10/22 Pau Garcia i Quiles <pgquiles at elpauer.org>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> IMHO a proper implementation needs to be a QPA platform.
>>>>
>>>> Widgets need to be "drawn" in this "web" target, like in X11, Wayland,
>>>> Windows, etc. The only change would be the low level primitives are HTML +
>>>> CSS + JavaScript + SVG (and maybe even images), like Wt does.
>>>>
>>>> Trivia: the first version of Wt used Qt instead as the backend. They
>>>> moved to Boost because of licensing (Qt was not LGPL back then) and
>>>> threading.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:55 AM, <lars.knoll at nokia.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >From my point of view:
>>>>>
>>>>> Having something here would be great. I don't think it should be part
>>>>> of
>>>>> the essential Qt modules, but as an add-on it would be a very welcome
>>>>> addition :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Lars
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/22/11 7:09 AM, "ext Mark Constable" <markc at renta.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >On 2011-10-21 10:10 PM, Dhaivat Pandya wrote:
>>>>> >> This seems like something that's way out there, and may have been
>>>>> >> suggested before and rejected, but, I'm bringing it up anyway. What
>>>>> >> would the Qt community think of a web framework devised around Qt?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Speaking personally I'd love to see...
>>>>> >
>>>>> >. a web server similar to lighttpd but 100% based on Qt
>>>>> >
>>>>> >. a Qt5/V8 Javascript "engine" similar to NodeJS
>>>>> >
>>>>> >. an optional but builtin C++ FastCGI interface for the above
>>>>> >
>>>>> >In other words the essential tools for a Qt Server Side JavaScript
>>>>> >solution, with Websocket support, so it can be as both a traditional
>>>>> >webserver or a local backend to a HTML5/QML desktop system.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Why another webserver when lighttpd, nginx, even apache, already exist
>>>>> >as stable codebases? Because none of them allow me to build, develop
>>>>> >and deploy them, and any web based projects, within QtCreator using
>>>>> >CMake and Git. There is currently a complete development disconnect
>>>>> >when deploying a typical HTTP based remote server within a Qt project.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Qt has all the stuff one needs to build a legitimate web framework,
>>>>> >> connection to a scripting language (PySide, or any language with a
>>>>> C++
>>>>> >> API, such as Lua), Sql libraries, async socket libraries, XML,
>>>>> >> everything. We just need some (okay, not some, a lot) of code to
>>>>> glue
>>>>> >> this all together into a well knit package. I'll await suggestions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Wouldn't Wt provide a lot of that? http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt
>>>>> >
>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>>>> >Development mailing list
>>>>> >Development at qt-project.org
>>>>> >http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Development mailing list
>>>>> Development at qt-project.org
>>>>> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Pau Garcia i Quiles
>>>> http://www.elpauer.org
>>>> (Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Development mailing list
>>>> Development at qt-project.org
>>>> http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pau Garcia i Quiles
>> http://www.elpauer.org
>> (Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)
>>
>
>

-- 
Pau Garcia i Quiles
http://www.elpauer.org
(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)
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