[Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct

Alexey Andreyev yetanotherandreyev at gmail.com
Mon Oct 29 01:20:04 CET 2018


> Sure, but again that's why we have a committee behind who will evaluate
the
> charges and decide what the proper action to be taken is. If the charges
are
> fake, then the accused would of course not be affected in any way. And if
the
> accuser keeps making false accusations, that's the one who could face
> sanctions.

Sanctions like ban with additional false accusations about harassment could
be sent to mass media to create negative image of the community.

> No one said that keeping a
> community welcoming is free. It requires all of us to look after one
another
> and our shared values.
> But I think it's a price we're willing to pay.

I'm not saying we should not work on shared values. As I said earlier many
times, I agree we need rules.

Let's take a look at archlinux CoC for example:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Code_of_conduct

Literally no vulnerable promises about protecting from harassment that
could be hard to keep. Additional mention at archwiki not to play with
controvertial non-related subjects at technical place:

"The staff certainly realize that such issues are deeply ingrained human
realities. However, this is a technical community and is not intended nor
able to effectively facilitate such commentary nor the resulting unrest."

> And I'm pretty sure the KDE Community WG can easily compile a list of
times
> that they were maliciously asked to look into situations and how much
time it
> took them to give it the attention it was due.

Thank you! It would be nice to see with general numbers, to make a
comparison, but I agree it is very hard to research

> Tell us how to measure the benefit compared to not having a CoC.

I never said we don't need a CoC. I've said that not any CoC is healthy.


пн, 29 окт. 2018 г. в 0:44, Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira at intel.com>:

> On Sunday, 28 October 2018 13:18:02 PDT Alexey Andreyev wrote:
> > > The text is clear - actions will be taken to stop the discrimination.
> > > That involves technical means (kick / ban) but also more social means
> >
> > It is not clear. Intruder could ask to ban some person pretending it's
> > discrimination problem.
>
> Sure, but again that's why we have a committee behind who will evaluate
> the
> charges and decide what the proper action to be taken is. If the charges
> are
> fake, then the accused would of course not be affected in any way. And if
> the
> accuser keeps making false accusations, that's the one who could face
> sanctions.
>
> > intruder could ask to accept vulnerable changes.
>
> And why would you or an approver accept technically inferior solutions? No
> one
> is saying that we should do that. All that is required is to be civil and
> harassment-free when discussing such a solution.
>
> > All the described situations requires resources from the community.
> > It also could be used to something could be called denial-of-community
> > situation.
>
> Yes, it does require resources from the community. No one said that
> keeping a
> community welcoming is free. It requires all of us to look after one
> another
> and our shared values.
>
> But I think it's a price we're willing to pay.
>
> And I'm pretty sure the KDE Community WG can easily compile a list of
> times
> that they were maliciously asked to look into situations and how much time
> it
> took them to give it the attention it was due.
>
> > In general, it could be used to change the image of the community to made
> > it less popular
> > and decrease the number of new members.
>
> How could it be used to do that?
>
> > Anyway, I guess there's still no scientific research and social survey
> > about the number of the situations that could be called conflicts.
> > So I don't see what problem should be solved right now.
>
> First of all, there are enough situations handled by multiple CoC
> committees
> in several communities to prove that it's worth it. There have been
> situations
> when they've been called to act and they have. I'd like to know about
> situations that were resolved peacefully and the person who was found to
> be
> doing harassing changed their behaviour.
>
> As for a scientific research, it's pretty hard with social situations,
> like
> almost anything related to people's behaviour: communities are different
> from
> one another and you can't have a control group to see what happens if you
> don't adopt a CoC.
>
> > I could not accept an answer like "let's try and see" since we didn't
> even
> > proposed metrics how to check new CoC is helping.
>
> Tell us how to measure the benefit compared to not having a CoC.
>
> I'll be very satisfied even if we have a total of zero times the CoC acts
> in
> the next 5 years and that no new contributor mentions reading the CoC
> before
> joining the community.
>
> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com
>   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
>
>
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