[Interest] Oops! Somebody's got a bad case of dependency bloat!

Wed Apr 10 23:18:49 CEST 2013

> Ack!
>
> Now its a complete scripting language (Perl) for just a few headers+docs
and tomorrow? Ruby? Python? more libs?
>
> Starting introducing one new dependency usually ends up in the next new
lib/tool and a further one and so on...

without argument;  my entry into this thread was entirely based on a
response I sent to thiago and not the list somewhat returning a flame for
the "anyone with half a brain knows Linux dev tools are the best".

it irks me that I need any 3rd (4th or 5th) language to build a library of
a totally different language. However I have yet to see a "real" project
with a clean and perfect build process.

my distaste stems mostly from the "works for me" nature of qt on windows
only to discover I generally need a dozen (minor) modifications.

stepping back from the thread as im changing the meaning of it
unintentionally.

> The Qt didn't need new tools for over seven years - and still there is no
real need, just the whish of the devs for it.
>
> Technically - as stated in depth in this thread before - nor the Qt devs
nor the Qt customers / users technically need Perl etc. - it's just a
matter of convenience for the Qt devs and a burden for all (commercial)
users of source builds.
>
> And even after many in depth explanaitions of the troubles commercial
devs have to face with these new dependencies, some devs can't see/imagine
the implications... sadly...
>
> Answering the question to the "> 14.000 clients":
> The clients is the sum of all end-user and dev machines. In usual cases
there are only a few devs and many thousand end-users.
> But: Both - the devs and end-users - must use the nearly exactly same
hard- and software environment with all it's restrictions (e.g. no usb
sticks allowed, hard firewall rules, only certified software packages -
means: the new Perl packakge has to pass a longterm certification process
before it's allowed to get installed).
>
> Hard to imagine? Just think about mid- and enterprise-sized automotive,
insurance and finance companies, which have to comply to their own and to
legal security and QA restrictions and regulations.
>
> ciao,
> Chris
>
> > --
> > MJ
> >
> > >
> > > For me, its more akin to, okay we remove perl and then it's the next
issue and then the next and so on.
> > >
> > > They loathe windows, that's the correct answer and in earnest as a
non-paying customer that's fine/fair.Support will always suck for that
platform. You can fix it but you'd first need to fork it, which is sorta a
fork it all type situation.
> > >
> > > On Apr 10, 2013 3:42 PM, "Michael Jackson" <imikejackson at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > As much as I just went off the deep end on Thiago let's look at it
from the Qt devs point of view. Say they really do want to get rid of the
perl thing and rewrite what the perl script did in C++ so it can be
compiled during the configure process like qmake.
> > >
> > > Who actually is going to step up to do this? Who has the time. I
bitch and complain but I certainly do NOT have the time right now. I have
paying customers that are demanding my attention not to mention family
life. So then we turn to Digia to get it done. But they will not without a
_Paying_ customer to foot the development costs. And no one here is going
to foot that bill.
> > >
> > > BUT...
> > >
> > > What if we took this to a "Kickstarter" like process. if those of us
who want to get rid of Perl are willing to cough up some money I bet we
_could_ foot the bill to make the conversion from Perl to C++. Who we get
to do it is up for discussion. There are more than a few Qt Devs that need
the extra work.
> > >
> > > Just food for thought. (Trying to help find a solution instead of
just bitching...)
> > > ---
> > > Mike J.
> > >
> > > PS - Yes I top posted. Want that to be read.
> > >
> > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Justin Ferguson wrote:
> > >
> > > > >And yes: The best way would be a >mail to the commercial
support...
> > > >
> > > > I've always had a severe distaste for those sorts of arguments that
turn OSS/FS into a form of semi-crippled shareware where if i want it to
work i have to pay; which often enough turns into "travel insurance":
insured against all the reasons you probably wont miss your flight (acts of
god v. Lost taxi driver)
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 10, 2013 3:25 PM, "Christian Dähn" <daehn at asinteg.de> wrote:
> > > > > On 04/10/2013 10:05 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And just because a "majority" download the installer does not
mean "ALL". It is YOUR JOB AS A Qt DEVELOPER/MAINTAINER to make MY life
easier. That is your job.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you made a mistake and sent this email to an opensource
> > > > > project's mailing list instead of to your Sysadmin.
> > > >
> > > > In this special case he is right because he addresses Thiago (who
works for Digia and is partly responsible for the problems we commercial
customers have to suffer with the new Qt 5 policies).
> > > >
> > > > And yes: The best way would be a mail to the commercial support...
> > > >
> > > > But: Even the commercial support currently does nothing else as
just creating a public issue in the Qt-Project bugtracker ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Currently commercial customers more and more are less important and
have the same priority as any user of the opensource releases... sorry, my
experiences especially in the last weeks...
> > > >
> > > > Sadly none of the devs at Digia seems to have experiences with IT
and project structures of industrial and enterprise structures / companies
- that leads to such biased discussions... like a fight between commercial
(Windows) customers and the Qt devs (Linux/Mac users).
> > > >
> > > > ciao,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
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> Mit den besten Grüßen,
> Christian Dähn
> Consultant
>
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