[Interest] Oops! Somebody's got a bad case of dependency bloat!

[Christian Dähn]

> > For me personally i don't overly see perl as an issue, on that side of
> > things i agree with Thiago, what are you doing compiling qt without the
> > proper tools?
>
> The point is that I did not NEED perl to compile Qt 4.x based on the sources
> downloaded from the Qt-project site. So I had all the "proper" tools. Now that
> Qt 5 needs perl I guess I am missing a tool. I'll get the process started and
> let you know next year how it went.

Ack!

Now its a complete scripting language (Perl) for just a few headers+docs and
tomorrow? Ruby? Python? more libs?

Starting introducing one new dependency usually ends up in the next new lib/tool
and a further one and so on...

The Qt didn't need new tools for over seven years - and still there is no real
need, just the whish of the devs for it.

Technically - as stated in depth in this thread before - nor the Qt devs nor the
Qt customers / users technically need Perl etc. - it's just a matter of
convenience for the Qt devs and a burden for all (commercial) users of source
builds.

And even after many in depth explanaitions of the troubles commercial devs have
to face with these new dependencies, some devs can't see/imagine the
implications... sadly...

Answering the question to the "> 14.000 clients":
The clients is the sum of all end-user and dev machines. In usual cases there
are only a few devs and many thousand end-users.
But: Both - the devs and end-users - must use the nearly exactly same hard- and
software environment with all it's restrictions (e.g. no usb sticks allowed,
hard firewall rules, only certified software packages - means: the new Perl
packakge has to pass a longterm certification process before it's allowed to get
installed).

Hard to imagine? Just think about mid- and enterprise-sized automotive,
insurance and finance companies, which have to comply to their own and to legal
security and QA restrictions and regulations.

ciao,
Chris

> --
> MJ
>
> >
> > For me, its more akin to, okay we remove perl and then it's the next issue
> > and then the next and so on.
> >
> > They loathe windows, that's the correct answer and in earnest as a
> > non-paying customer that's fine/fair.Support will always suck for that
> > platform. You can fix it but you'd first need to fork it, which is sorta a
> > fork it all type situation.
> >
> > On Apr 10, 2013 3:42 PM, "Michael Jackson" <imikejackson at gmail.com> wrote:
> > As much as I just went off the deep end on Thiago let's look at it from the
> > Qt devs point of view. Say they really do want to get rid of the perl thing
> > and rewrite what the perl script did in C++ so it can be compiled during the
> > configure process like qmake.
> >
> > Who actually is going to step up to do this? Who has the time. I bitch and
> > complain but I certainly do NOT have the time right now. I have paying
> > customers that are demanding my attention not to mention family life. So
> > then we turn to Digia to get it done. But they will not without a _Paying_
> > customer to foot the development costs. And no one here is going to foot
> > that bill.
> >
> > BUT...
> >
> > What if we took this to a "Kickstarter" like process. if those of us who
> > want to get rid of Perl are willing to cough up some money I bet we _could_
> > foot the bill to make the conversion from Perl to C++. Who we get to do it
> > is up for discussion. There are more than a few Qt Devs that need the extra
> > work.
> >
> > Just food for thought. (Trying to help find a solution instead of just
> > bitching...)
> > ---
> > Mike J.
> >
> > PS - Yes I top posted. Want that to be read.
> >
> > On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Justin Ferguson wrote:
> >
> > > >And yes: The best way would be a >mail to the commercial support...
> > >
> > > I've always had a severe distaste for those sorts of arguments that turn
> > > OSS/FS into a form of semi-crippled shareware where if i want it to work i
> > > have to pay; which often enough turns into "travel insurance": insured
> > > against all the reasons you probably wont miss your flight (acts of god v.
> > > Lost taxi driver)
> > >
> > > On Apr 10, 2013 3:25 PM, "Christian Dähn" <daehn at asinteg.de> wrote:
> > > > On 04/10/2013 10:05 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And just because a "majority" download the installer does not mean
> > > > > "ALL". It is YOUR JOB AS A Qt DEVELOPER/MAINTAINER to make MY life
> > > > > easier. That is your job.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think you made a mistake and sent this email to an opensource
> > > > project's mailing list instead of to your Sysadmin.
> > >
> > > In this special case he is right because he addresses Thiago (who works
> > > for Digia and is partly responsible for the problems we commercial
> > > customers have to suffer with the new Qt 5 policies).
> > >
> > > And yes: The best way would be a mail to the commercial support...
> > >
> > > But: Even the commercial support currently does nothing else as just
> > > creating a public issue in the Qt-Project bugtracker ;-)
> > >
> > > Currently commercial customers more and more are less important and have
> > > the same priority as any user of the opensource releases... sorry, my
> > > experiences especially in the last weeks...
> > >
> > > Sadly none of the devs at Digia seems to have experiences with IT and
> > > project structures of industrial and enterprise structures / companies -
> > > that leads to such biased discussions... like a fight between commercial
> > > (Windows) customers and the Qt devs (Linux/Mac users).
> > >
> > > ciao,
> > > Chris
> > >
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Mit den besten Grüßen,
Christian Dähn
Consultant

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