[Interest] [Development] Windows 7 support will be dropped in Qt 6
roland at logikalsolutions.com
Mon Jun 15 18:06:21 CEST 2020
You completely miss the point.
Qt has been prone to sweeping API changes mostly due to the fact they
keep chasing the iDiot phone market. If that is the market they want,
fine, but they had best fess up now so everyone else can go somewhere else.
You can't take someone who learned via Qt 5 and have them work in Qt 3
because it is night and day different.
You can change an awful lot without going down the full clinical trial
path. IT ALL DEPENDS ON RISK.
That device I linked went through some kind of enhancement approval
path. I don't know what it replaced exactly, but I do know the previous
device did not use Linux or Qt. I know because I worked on that project.
When you get out into the world of industrial controls, they don't have
the FDA level of certification. They do have 20-50 year lifespans
though. These are things with a base price of half a million going well
up past $5-$6 million. They have a minimum 30 year life span, most are
closer to 50. Many of them are running DOS, WinCE, and the embedded
version of Windows 7. It's bad enough that Qt keeps dropping everything
the industrial and medical world needs in pursuit of the iDiot phone
market, BUT ADDING INSULT TO INJURY THEY KEEP MAKING SWEEPING API
CHANGES. This means two things:
1) Kids who only learn the new stuff can't be hired to support the old
because they cannot even begin to function.
2) If someone decides to pull the plug on their really old embedded OS
in favor of a roll-your-own Yocto Linux build, they can't even bring
their code forward. The entire cross-platform aspect of Qt has been
abandoned. It's only cross-platform for "the cool kids."
What we really need is for KDE to announce what their new development
library is. The desktop, medical, and industrial device world will move
their money and resources to that library and Qt will be left with
nothing but the phone market. The "new" choice must promise the following:
*No core API changes that break backward compatibility. *
They can add optional parameters to the end of a parameter list, but no
class name changes, no method name changes, no dropping of methods.
They can add new classes, but everything that was there in 2019/2020 has
to still be there in 2050.
The insult added to the injury of Qt dropping operating systems is they
change sh*t willy-nilly without even the slightest thought given to the
installed base. The people who aren't starting over every six months.
On 6/15/20 10:10 AM, Jérôme Godbout wrote:
> This is exactly my point, that device is STILL on Qt3 because you don't want to go all over that certifications/testing just for changing a Qt versions. You can enchance it, but you will need to proof the changes impacts have been cover in testings and no risk have been added. Those system, nearly never get update libs or anything at large because you have to retests and recertify the whole thing. Just changing the model of an harddrive into a machine make a need to recertify. So those device will never care if the bleeding edge Qt doesn't support their platform. They are fixed with known version of differents libs that are known to be workign together and tested.
> Those device are not using anything bleeding edge, so let alone runing any Windows 7 or Windows 10 with Qt6 in the near time. If anything into those domain start using Qt6 it will probably be a new design or a new version that will need to be certified all over again anyway, so the upgrade path is not there.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Hughes <roland at logikalsolutions.com>
> Sent: June 15, 2020 10:11 AM
> To: Jérôme Godbout <godboutj at amotus.ca>; interest at qt-project.org; Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira at intel.com>
> Subject: Re: [Interest] [Development] Windows 7 support will be dropped in Qt 6
> I seriously beg to differ.
> In America "upgrades" and field patches have a completely different certification path than "shiny new device." What has to be certified is based on the extent of the changes and how well the FDA documentation is filled out.
> That OS/2 Qt3 medical device I get an email about ever 18 months or so continues to get enhancements. Changing to even Qt for or Linux would push it to "shiny new device" depending on the assessed risk level.
> A patient monitor like this one
> Has a completely different risk level than say, an infusion pump.
> I have worked on products that just added new features to existing lines. In America it happens all of the time.
> On 6/15/20 8:33 AM, Jérôme Godbout wrote:
>> I have work for medical devices for over 10 years and used Qt from 4.x to 5.8 (move out to IoT lately), designing system and software. Cie who do that, did it wrong, you have to ensure your software will run and you maintaint it, but in no way you will add any new features (you will need to certify again!). You keep a system images that can recreate the exact same output (OS, build tools, ...), you patch the bug that's all you should do. New features will be done into a new system that will need to be certify all over again.
>> Upgrading to Qt6 for already certified devices is a no go, no matter what for them. This is totally irrelevent. You only upgrade tools and libs when you create a new system (version, design, etc) that will be certified again.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Interest <interest-bounces at qt-project.org> On Behalf Of Roland Hughes
>> Sent: June 13, 2020 11:08 AM
>> To: interest at qt-project.org; Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira at intel.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Interest] [Development] Windows 7 support will be dropped in Qt 6
>> Medical devices are certified with their manufacturing process.
>> Certification of something like a surgical robot can take 5+ years of clinical trials. That is _after_ you have done all of your internal development and cadaver trials.
>> On 6/13/20 5:00 AM, interest-request at qt-project.org wrote:
>>>> That's partially for their own peace of mind and stability, but along
>>>> with that, many tool vendors take quite a while to certify their
>>>> offerings, both hardware and software, which gives people another
>>>> reason to stay behind.
>>> More than two years?
>> Roland Hughes, President
>> Logikal Solutions
>> Interest mailing list
>> Interest at qt-project.org
Roland Hughes, President
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