[Development] Who is in charge of qt-project.org?

Fri Nov 2 14:03:31 CET 2018

>   But it would not change the facts - it is an impossibly huge task to
replace CMake with Qbs even within the Qt users, let alone outside of Qt.

Yes... then you *should not have encouraged* your customers to switch in
the first place.
Either you are committed to keep you *promises* or you are not.
Promises that have been done *less than a year* ago.

Whether it was a dumb decision to make such a promise is another question,
but you *made it* and people actually migrated to qbs and now risk getting
straddled with dead build system in their projects.
If you make such a promise, be prepared to either keep it or suffer the
mistrust of your users.

There's plenty of salt in your blog post about it: these are all people
that will think ten times before adopting anything of yours again.
Personally, I will discourage anyone from trusting you ever again. I hope
others do too.
Is *this* a risk you are willing to take?

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:44 PM Tuukka Turunen <tuukka.turunen at qt.io> wrote:

>
> Exactly. We are very pleased if there are people who start to contribute
> to Qbs. So far it has been very little by others than employees of The Qt
> Company.
>
> We will continue maintaining Qbs so that it stays supported until end of
> 2019 and also release a new version in April 2019 as promised. Most likely
> Qbs remains usable a long time after support ends - even without anyone
> from the community working on it.
>
> This is a good opportunity for those interested in further developing Qbs
> to step up and start taking it forward. We can help with the reviews and
> provide the infrastructure. We can help even with new releases, if there is
> enough interest to develop it further.
>
> I do not think anyone questions the technical merits of Qbs over qmake or
> CMake. Qbs is better than these in many ways. For that reason we have kept
> on investing into it. But we also need to be realistic and think about what
> paying customers prefer. While we have some customers using Qbs, the use of
> CMake is much, much bigger. Both by the number of customers using it and by
> the size of the customers' usage.
>
> We probably should have opened the dialogue about the future of Qbs during
> the process of thinking about the options. This would have been good and
> fair towards the community. But it would not change the facts - it is an
> impossibly huge task to replace CMake with Qbs even within the Qt users,
> let alone outside of Qt.
>
> Yours,
>
>         Tuukka
>
> On 02/11/2018, 14.15, "Development on behalf of Martin Smith"
> <development-bounces+tuukka.turunen=qt.io at qt-project.org on behalf of
> Martin.Smith at qt.io> wrote:
>
>     >You've just dropped Qbs, what's next?
>     >I don't trust you anymore, nor the company-ies you represent -
> Nothing personal.
>     >I think that it is time for the qt-project.org domain to be handed
>     >back to the Qt Project community.
>
>     But "dropped Qbs" means The Qt Company won't be developing Qbs
> anymore, which means, effectively, Qbs is being handed to the Qt Project
> community.
>
>     martin
>
>     ________________________________________
>     From: Development <development-bounces+martin.smith=
> qt.io at qt-project.org> on behalf of Christian Gagneraud <chgans at gmail.com>
>     Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 1:08:34 PM
>     To: Lars Knoll
>     Cc: development at qt-project.org; v.ronin at yahoo.it
>     Subject: Re: [Development] Who is in charge of qt-project.org?
>
>     On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 23:55, Lars Knoll <lars.knoll at qt.io> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     > On 2 Nov 2018, at 11:45, Christian Gagneraud <chgans at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>     >
>     > On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 22:25, Kain Vampire via Development
>     > <development at qt-project.org> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Hi,
>     > I have to apologise for my behaviour. While I still think Christian
> Gagneraud's attack on the Qt company abilities was unfair and uncalled for,
> it's not a justification for my actions.
>     > Creating an hostile environment is bad for the community and I
> should not have done it.
>     > It won't happen again,
>     > Regards,
>     > Luca
>     >
>     >
>     > Hi All,
>     >
>     > I would  like to apologise as well, my sarcasm and my provocation
> went
>     > uncontrolled.
>     > My fault, this was definitely not the most clever way to get things
> sorted.
>     > I'm looking forward HTTPS://lists.qt-project.org to be back online
> and
>     > would like to thanks everyone working on the matter.
>     >
>     >
>     > Thanks Chris and Luca.
>     >
>     > Getting lists.qt-project.org fixed is being worked on. I hope it’s
> won’t be too long.
>     >
>     > But there’s something to take away for TQtC as the party taking care
> of the infrastructure here. TQtC needs to establish some more pro-active
> monitoring of the infrastructure so that these things will get ideally get
> fixed before they become a problem next time. I’ll see what I can do to
> help getting that in place.
>
>     <big-warning message="not cool at all" apologies="you have been
>     warned, do not keep reading if you do not fell comfortable">
>
>     Hi Lars,
>
>     You've just dropped Qbs, what's next?
>     I don't trust you anymore, nor the company-ies you represent - Nothing
> personal.
>     I think that it is time for the qt-project.org domain to be handed
>     back to the Qt Project community.
>     I was reading a french article this morning
>     (https://linuxfr.org/news/fedora-29), i give you an inaccurate, but
>     syntactic and compact translation of the article introduction:
>
>     Fedora is a GNU/Linux distribution developed by the Fedora Project and
>     sponsored by Red Hat that provide them with developers, finance and
>     logistics.
>     Fedora can be seen as an open source technological show case of Red
>     Hat proprietary technology. (NDLR: Free and inaccurate translation, i
>     mean it)
>     => sold for 34 billions dollars
>
>     How do you fell about that? Do you see similarities?
>
>     Is the triple-licensed Qt stack an open source technological show case
>     of what the Qt Company has to offer?
>     </big-warning>
>
>     More seriously, yes, Fedora/RedHat  and
>     Qt/Project/Company/Digia/Nokia/Microsoft/TrollTech are different beast
>     (apple and oranges, yadi, yada, ...).
>     But I see similarities. (and i do not care about the 34 billions)
>
>     Chris
>     _______________________________________________
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>     _______________________________________________
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>     Development at qt-project.org
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>
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