[Interest] L Word

Konstantin Shegunov kshegunov at gmail.com
Fri Apr 30 14:36:05 CEST 2021

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 1:56 PM Bernhard Lindner <
private at bernhard-lindner.de> wrote:

> Agreed. Why not configuring e-mail filters? This is what I would do. This
> is definitely
> better than leaving the list or getting angry and also better than waiting
> for the
> moderators taking actions for years.

Well, because ignoring a problem doesn't magically make it go away. Sure,
it's been done, many of us have ignored the mails/threads, but I'd say it
comes a point where you stand your ground. We did draft the CoC for a
reason, and I like that it's not enforced for arbitrarily minor
infractions, but then again, this is not a single instance or a slip, this
has been going on for a time. You could possibly argue that Peppe's
reaction is extreme, or passive-agressive, but the fact of the matter is
that it's also logical. If you push back but it ain't budging, you
typically look for a way around ... and in some sense avoiding a hostile
space (or one you perceive as hostile) is a very valid "way around".

Depends from the point of view. I have never felt insulted by Roland. And I
> can understand
> (and agree) his points many times.

Me neither, and so do I. But this isn't the issue here. The point is that
this isn't a society of two (you and me), but it's a larger group. I am not
into the SJW mentality, however you have to acknowledge the repeated use of
qualifications incompatible with the good tone and spirit of a civil
(technical) discussion. I will not bring in examples, of which there's
plenty, and you did acknowledge that.

> But it explains his frustration. And it explains why there a so few people
> who understand
> his (rudely presented) arguments.

I could have an explanation for any unacceptable behaviour without having
to validate it.
Hypothetical example: If, say, a person was abused by their parents, we
could argue it's perfectly understandable why they react violently and
abuse their spouse. This doesn't mean it's an acceptable (or lawful)

If you came from Mars I would surely tolerate much more misbehavior than if
> you came from
> Earth.

How much more? Sure, you can allow for some leeway in your decisions, but
sooner or later I'm going to have to face the music if I continue to act
the same way, right?
As always one draws the line somewhere, even if it may not be the same
place for everybody.

> This is a mailing list. People can be filtered and/or ignored on an
> individual basis.

You know this, and I know this, because we've been around long enough and
can make an informed decision. A person who just joins the list ordinarily
has little notion of how people are, and who's who. And that's in addition
to the obvious hijacking of the threads and arbitrary insults. When I come
with a question, I wouldn't want to be told that I'm stupid for not having
a "software engineering degree" (which seems rather important for Roland)
or read a book on how great VMS is, I'd rather be guided to a proper
solution for my problem. This is hardly unreasonable to ask, is it?

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:15 PM Ulf Hermann <ulf.hermann at qt.io> wrote:

> I would like a new mailing list that focuses on technical aspects, like
> "how do I use Qt in such and such way". Any question of licenses,
> general politics, the importance of functional safety, fruit baskets,
> etc can stay here on the old mailing list.

Agreed, although I acknowledge it's not always easy to disentangle the
questions of licenses and politics from the technical discussion, and these
topics do matter. But as it happens we all have our opinions, I just hope
we can share them as civilized people.
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